Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[Zaroku]

This is an excellent question. I wanted to jump in on this days ago....

I just don't ****ing know. I have no sense of. Splitting a cent hair.

Sorry... I'm not that smart...

[therealpugilist]

Mike McCallum is in a different league to James Toney.

In all honesty, the first fight with McCallum flatters Toney. McCallum beat him the second time and if we look at it career wise then it's not even close.

I'm not sure if Toney is better than Montel Griffin if I'm honest.

with that logic im not sure if hearns is better than iran barkley...he beat him twice right?

I dont know if Hopkins is better than Jermain taylor......you know how silly that sounds...Taylor had the right style, doesnt mean he was a better fighter than Hopkins overall




styles make fights, you keep latching on to the 3 bad showings toney had while clearly ignoring Hopkins own limitations

Toney had over 70 fights, sure he had ups and downs, so did Hopkins

I feel toney defeated guys that Hopkins wouldnt or couldnt, also I dont think Hopkins would have been able to compete above 175 and remain world class like toney did.

[KingHippo]

Are we talking about pure skills? If it's so it's Toney hands down.

[therealpugilist]

This is why i don't want to debate. You have to be ******ed or trolling to think montel is anywhere near the level, let alone better, than james toney

dude is clinging on to his losses and not even mentioning his top wins or best performances.

Hopkins doesnt look so good either when you look at how crappy his competition was at 160. Toney took more risks and beat better opposition imo

Hopkins took calculated risks


Also Hopkins lost to all of his best opponents....sure toney lost a few so, did Hopkins but Toney beat most of his best opponents. Hopkins always came up short when he fought fighters he didnt oversize and had better movement, speed and athleticism

[therealpugilist]

It's so frustrating to see people say Toney is more skilled than Hopkins.

He's not even in Hopkins league skill wise.

I know Hopkins tops him in the skill of being dirty and the art of flopping

[therealpugilist]

So are we going to ignore Hopkins losses? Losing his first pro fight to a nobody, losing to Jones in his first real title shot, then drawing with Segundo Mercado? We can both play that game.

I've also technically broken down why Toney is better and refuse to acknowledge that and act as if I never said it You pick and choose which points you want to argue and then when I prove you wrong you twist things.

B Hop can't go 30 fights without losing. He Almost always lost when he fought the top guy in his division. Toney had superior hand speed, head movement, and punching power. But you want to ignore all of that. FINE...

Then I referenced the opinions of experienced fighters and trainers including Hopkins HIMSELF and you are still in denial. Toney hasn't been a top fighter for years and yet this poll is still a dead heat. That goes to show you dont know what you're talking about.

Hopkins took losses when he didnt have the advantages. Taylor was one of the only big middleweight he defended against. Holmes was a big guy with a negative style. He flopped vs Dawson, he knew he couldnt beat him and it was obvious in fight 1 and 2


Look at his resume, against sub par opposition he looked like a killer at 160, he didnt have to deal with guys like Nunn, or McCallum...he lost to jermain taylor twice

He always lost when he didnt dwarf his opponent and his opponent had the edge in speed, movement. Hopkins punch output went down major and he could be outworked

[therealpugilist]

All I know is toney is the only guy I have ever seen that could not train, be fat as hell, and throw down with the best cruisers and heavys..

Hopkins had to be 100% focused on training to be successful, toney could be 5% and be successful..

Titles- toney got more

Weight classes- toney got more

Wins- toney got the best with nunn and mccallum


Let hopkins be fat with no training and throw down with Peter, Rahman, holyfield, jirov

Toney was winning titles before Michael Jordan was winning titles,, and was still winning titles when shaq and Kobe was winning titles

The only thing hopkins beats toney in is work ethic and professionalism..


Toney used 10% of his potential and still won more titles and beat better fighters that hopkins

^^^^^this is why I picked toney too...he won more titles, more weights, beat better fighters, took more risks


Hopkins was more disciplined, thats about it

[therealpugilist]

Dominating and stopping Tito Trinidad didn't wow you but getting a draw with McCallum and edging a decision in a war against Jirov does wow you?

Felix trinidad was a former ww with like 1 win at 160

Mike McCallum was a proven middleweight and won titles at 154 and 160

also mccallum is just flat out better than Trinidad. Hopkins never fought anyone as skilled as mccallum and toney was going head to head with an ATG in his early 20s while Hopkins was figthting joe lipsey, willie bo james lol

[IronDanHamza]

with that logic im not sure if hearns is better than iran barkley...he beat him twice right?

I dont know if Hopkins is better than Jermain taylor......you know how silly that sounds...Taylor had the right style, doesnt mean he was a better fighter than Hopkins overall




styles make fights, you keep latching on to the 3 bad showings toney had while clearly ignoring Hopkins own limitations

Toney had over 70 fights, sure he had ups and downs, so did Hopkins

I feel toney defeated guys that Hopkins wouldnt or couldnt, also I dont think Hopkins would have been able to compete above 175 and remain world class like toney did.

That would make sense if Toney wasn't in his prime when Griffin beat him twice.

If Hearns and Hopkins lost to Barkley and Taylor twice in their primes then maybe I would but let's face it they would never lose to that caliber fighter in their primes.

THREE bad showings Toney had? Williams, Sosa, Johnson, Tiberi, Thadzi, Griffin x2, Roy Jones I think that's slightly more than three.

[IronDanHamza]

Felix trinidad was a former ww with like 1 win at 160

Mike McCallum was a proven middleweight and won titles at 154 and 160

also mccallum is just flat out better than Trinidad. Hopkins never fought anyone as skilled as mccallum and toney was going head to head with an ATG in his early 20s while Hopkins was figthting joe lipsey, willie bo james lol

Trinidad was proven at 160 as was McCallum.

Difference is Toney got a draw with McCallum and edged a decision most feel he should have lost the second time whereas Hopkins absolutely dominated and stopped Trinidad sometning Toney never did against a top tier opponent.