Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[Johnwoo8686]

It makes a huge difference. It's an entirely different statment.

Now you're being hard headed man. Hopkins did nothing better than James Toney, he was only the more disciplined fighter. He wasn't faster, didn't have greater punching power, and defensively wasn't as sharp. What Hop did have was a high fight IQ and discipline outside of the ring.

[baya]

Now you're being hard headed man. Hopkins did nothing better than James Toney, he was only the more disciplined fighter. He wasn't faster, didn't have greater punching power, and defensively wasn't as sharp. What Hop did have was a high fight IQ and discipline outside of the ring.

a high fight IQ that typically manifested itself in lead headbutts and fouls

[Nay_Sayer]

a high fight IQ that typically manifested itself in lead headbutts and fouls

Gotta give BHops credit for being a master at the art of fighting dirty. I've never seen anyone do it better. LOL...

[baya]

Gotta give BHops credit for being a master at the art of fighting dirty. I've never seen anyone do it better. LOL...

hopkins played the fight game great, we can all agree on that.

better than james toney though, hell naw, james toney was a much better fighter.

[IronDanHamza]

toney taking out nunn is better than hops taking out tito.

No it's not.

How is getting schooled for 90% of the fight and forcing a stoppage better than completely dominating and stopping Trinidad?

james toney has a very high ring IQ.

No he doesn't.

[IronDanHamza]

Now I'm convinced that YDKSAB.

The come from behind KO of Michael Nunn was a thing of beauty - as was his outclassing Jirov..

Oh you're convinced, fantastic.

He was schooled by Nunn until he gritted out the stoppage.

Jirov was a close war.

Both were far from dominant.

[IronDanHamza]

It's painfully obvious that he does to ANYONE who has a clue about the sport of boxing. I can't believe this is even a question. Sorry son but if you think James Toney doesn't have a HIGH ring IQ then YDKSAB...

How?

Name me a fight where he used his ring IQ to win.

Reggie Johnson, Nunn and Griffin outboxed him.

Tiberi and Thadzi out worked him aswell as Sosa and Williams gave him problems outworking him.

Roy Jones absolutely embarrassed him whisky staying in first gear.

Where was this IQ in all of these fights? I have never seen James Toney make an adjustment.

I get that in fantasy land where Toney is one of the greatest fighters ever and beats every fighter that ever lived in fantasy fights also has the ring IQ of Mayweather and Hopkins combined but in real life where I live there isn't a single example of this.

[IronDanHamza]

Now you're being hard headed man. Hopkins did nothing better than James Toney, he was only the more disciplined fighter. He wasn't faster, didn't have greater punching power, and defensively wasn't as sharp. What Hop did have was a high fight IQ and discipline outside of the ring.

Completely false and just miles away from the truth.

You're actually going to tell me that Toney has better footwork than Hopkins? He can fight better off the back foot that Hopkins?

Hopkins has a better jab, he can cut off the ring unlike Toney, and his defense is actually better. Hopkins got hit a lot less than Toney did.

Toney is what you call style, flash. Hopkins is what you call substance. Hopkins doesn't fight in spurts like Toney, doesn't let himself get outworked, doesn't get hit with the same punch consistently like Toney.

It's night and day.

[Johnwoo8686]

Completely false and just miles away from the truth.

You're actually going to tell me that Toney has better footwork than Hopkins? He can fight better off the back foot that Hopkins?

Hopkins has a better jab, he can cut off the ring unlike Toney, and his defense is actually better. Hopkins got hit a lot less than Toney did.

Toney is what you call style, flash. Hopkins is what you call substance. Hopkins doesn't fight in spurts like Toney, doesn't let himself get outworked, doesn't get hit with the same punch consistently like Toney.

It's night and day.

You clearly didn't read what I said. I said Toney had better punching power and better handspeed in his prime. Hopkins footwork was never anything special, hes been cornered and dropped numerous times in his career. In Toney's prime he was rarely ever dropped. The Jones knockdown was one of the few. Hopkins defense relied on spoiling and clinching while Toney relied on rolling and slipping punches.

You heard the man say it himself, Toney was more talented. And to put the nail in the coffin Freddie Roach trained both Hopkins and Toney and he said Toney was the most talented guy he ever trained, not even Pacquiao was as naturally talented in his eyes. You think you know boxing better than Roach?

[IronDanHamza]

You clearly didn't read what I said. I said Toney had better punching power and better handspeed in his prime. Hopkins footwork was never anything special, hes been cornered and dropped numerous times in his career. In Toney's prime he was rarely ever dropped. The Jones knockdown was one of the few. Hopkins defense relied on spoiling and clinching while Toney relied on rolling and slipping punches.

You heard the man say it himself, Toney was more talented. And to put the nail in the coffin Freddie Roach trained both Hopkins and Toney and he said Toney was the most talented guy he ever trained, not even Pacquiao was as naturally talented in his eyes. You think you know boxing better than Roach?

Such a poor argument; "Well Roach said it!" Ok, so I suppose you take everything Roach says as gospel then?

Hopkins footwork may not have been special, but it was a damn sight better than Toney's. Toney's footwork is not good.

Since when does being dropped equate to how good some owns defense is? Whitaker got dropped more times than Toney are you going to tell me that Toney has a better defense than Whitaker? Toney barely got dropped because of his great chin more than anything. He sure as hell got hit enough. A LOT more than Hopkins did.

Hopkins barely spoiled in his prime so I won't even respond to that statment.