Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[IronDanHamza]

It is hard to argue who is "better", since they had different opposition except Jones. In that single instance Jones utterly embarassed Toney, but Hopkins lost with respectable 8-4 score, or even 7-5. Hopkins himself was pretty good mover and I think he would handle James pretty much the same way Jones did, maybe not that flashy and spectacular, but with the same efficiency. Used his movement and reach and potshotted Toney to wide UD.
But if Hopkins would decide that he may "go for the kill" and start engaging with James, this is where he could get in trouble. But his chin is incomparably better than Nunn's... so I think he still wins even in this scenario.

He wins easily in that scenario.

Any scenario Hopkins wins with ease.

Hopkins could outbox him with ease, he could outwork with ease, and even in the only area Toney ever excelled on the inside, Hopkins would beat him there aswell.

[therealpugilist]

It is absolutely not clear at all. Toney did not beat better overall opposition at all and he certainly didn't do it in a more dominant fashion.

I would not be surprised if the 170 versions of Wright and Pavlik beat Toney. He's lost and struggled with lesser opponents than them. You say When Hopkins fought the elite he struggled...ok...Toney didn't even have to fight the elite to struggle. James Toney lost and struggled to guys who weren't even ranked in the top 20.

Shoulda woulda coulda? Are you actually serious? Should Woulda Coulda SUMS UP Toney's career to an absolute tee. "Toney woulda be the GOAT If he wasn't a fat lazy moron" "Toney coulda beat anyone if he was in shape but unfortunately he was NEVER in shape"

Hopkins actually did stuff. Hopkins built a great career, Hopkins broke records. Hopkins had a career Toney can only fantasise about.

that statement alone just killed the conversation...Pavlik was a good fighter but come one man.....Pavlik didnt fight at a fast pace, was pretty basic and wasnt much of a mover

He was tailor made for toney

Hopkins didnt have to fight the elite to struggle either consider he lost to a nobody in the beginning of his career and took 2 tries to beat Sergundo Mercado who dropped him in the first fight


the only record hopkins broke was the oldest fighter to win and defend a major world title.....the middleweight defenses record stands at 14, with carlos monzon

Hopkins has a bunch of defenses of a trinket and only defended the unified title 6 times



Hopkins took calculated risks and stayed at 160, one of the worst divisions in boxing at the time and was fighting nobodies majority of the time there....he was like 14 ibf defenses in before he ever fought another title holder....fighting guys like Joe Lipsey(wtf)....a washed up Johnson david jackson and simon brown....that title reign wasnt all that....it was more quantity than quality

[BodiesInFlight]

What the hell is a "deliberate" style? I have never heard that term in my life.

I hate those deliberate styles man, accidental styles be the best!

[therealpugilist]

What the hell is a "deliberate" style? I have never heard that term in my life.

Hopkins made adjustments mid fight numerous times. I have never seen James Toney make a single adjustment ever.

You keep bringing up his loss's. Who's loss's and poor performances are worse Hopkins or Toney's? Hopkins lost to top level opponents. James Toney lost to Dave Tiberi and Drake Thazdi.

Hopkins MW resume is about quantity, ok. And there's no way James Toney would go through that resume undefeated. No chance in hell.

Hopkins never adjusted at the highest level and in his later years would flop, whine, etc.

who did he make adjustments with joe lipsey?

[Doctor_Tenma]

I keep hearing Toney was more talented when Hopkins' foot speed was far superior and he was physically stronger in the clinches. Hopkins was better and he would have outboxed Toney.

[IronDanHamza]

that statement alone just killed the conversation...Pavlik was a good fighter but come one man.....Pavlik didnt fight at a fast pace, was pretty basic and wasnt much of a mover

He was tailor made for toney

Hopkins didnt have to fight the elite to struggle either consider he lost to a nobody in the beginning of his career and took 2 tries to beat Sergundo Mercado who dropped him in the first fight


the only record hopkins broke was the oldest fighter to win and defend a major world title.....the middleweight defenses record stands at 14, with carlos monzon

Hopkins has a bunch of defenses of a trinket and only defended the unified title 6 times



Hopkins took calculated risks and stayed at 160, one of the worst divisions in boxing at the time and was fighting nobodies majority of the time there....he was like 14 ibf defenses in before he ever fought another title holder....fighting guys like Joe Lipsey(wtf)....a washed up Johnson david jackson and simon brown....that title reign wasnt all that....it was more quantity than quality

Pavliks a whole better than Tiberi, Thadzi and Sosa even the 170 version and he could easily have L's against all 3. He's not tailor made for Toney.

I don't care if it was more quantity than quality, Toney ain't going through it undefeated.

Hopkins did take calculated risks, he did stay at 160 too long, he did do all these things. Still had a way better career than Toney.

Hopkins actually had dominant performances against top tier fighters. Also didn't lose to unranked fighters.

[Doctor_Tenma]

He wins easily in that scenario.

Any scenario Hopkins wins with ease.

Hopkins could outbox him with ease, he could outwork with ease, and even in the only area Toney ever excelled on the inside, Hopkins would beat him there aswell.

I think so too, Hopkins was an exceptional inside fighter and he knew how to work in the clinch, only Duran did it better.

[IronDanHamza]

Hopkins never adjusted at the highest level and in his later years would flop, whine, etc.

who did he make adjustments with joe lipsey?

Hopkins made plenty of adjustments.

Tito, Echols, Holmes, Wright, Pascal he made adjustments in all those fights.

Toney couldn't even stop Tiberi and Thadzi from out working him with the most basic of approaches.

[Lester Tutor]

Hopkins made plenty of adjustments.

Tito, Echols, Holmes, Wright, Pascal he made adjustments in all those fights.

Toney couldn't even stop Tiberi and Thadzi from out working him with the most basic of approaches.

I will do highlights of Tiberi vs Toney. You will see Toney beating him by the point system.

[Doctor_Tenma]

I will do highlights of Tiberi vs Toney. You will see Toney beating him by the point system.

Toney got outworked, that's not even debatable.