How is Brook suddenly NOT the best Welterweight?

[New England]

He's like Mayweather now. Too good for his own good. So anyone he fight will be too (fill in the blank) to mean anything. Unless GGG does get beat then he'll get humanized more & maybe will get some bigger respect from a wider number of fans.

As to the main subject of this thread I will say I didn't see Brook as the best guy in the division as for me its a division thats still up for grabs, but for sure Brook is in play for the #1 spot & this fight is the type of fight that'd have gotten Canelo less negativity if chosen instead of Khan. So if the purpose of this thread is a pissing contest between GGG & Canelo, GGG wins again as he does in most pissing contests with Canelo that don't involve economics. And if the purpose is to legitimize Brook as a GGG opponent I think anyone reasonable can see that Brook as a top 2 WW & arguably the best WW is a better opponent than a non-top ten MW who still more of a prospect than legit contender.

i'm assumiug you are implying that eubanks would be a lesser opponent than brook by the bold, which is not right.

brooks is a more proven guy, and without a doubt a better pound for pound fighter, but you're talking about two full weight classes. a gigantic, strong WW in brook would be a pipsqueak at MW against big MWs like murray, lemiuex, rubio, eubanks, jacobs, andy lee. even canelo, big charlo, andrade would dwarf him, and have 5-10 on him in the ring.


heck, i genuinely believe that canelo is bigger than golovkin. dude's 170 when he fights.


eubanks would absolutely dwarf brook in the ring, and he'd be a huge favorite going into the fight. two weight classes are hugely significant. it's usually only great, great fighters, who can jump two weight classes and beat top fighters. manny, floyd, hopkins, shane mosley, these are all time great fighters.

[Eff Pandas]

i'm assumiug you are implying that eubanks would be a lesser opponent than brook by the bold, which is not right.

brooks is a more proven guy, and without a doubt a better pound for pound fighter, but you're talking about two full weight classes. a gigantic, strong WW in brook would be a pipsqueak at MW against big MWs like murray, lemiuex, rubio, eubanks, jacobs, andy lee. even canelo, big charlo, andrade would dwarf him, and have 5-10 on him in the ring.


heck, i genuinely believe that canelo is bigger than golovkin. dude's 170 when he fights.


eubanks would absolutely dwarf brook in the ring, and he'd be a huge favorite going into the fight. two weight classes are hugely significant. it's usually only great, great fighters, who can jump two weight classes and beat top fighters. manny, floyd, hopkins, shane mosley, these are all time great fighters.

I obviously disagree on the first bolded & its about more than 1 on 1 matchups between potential opponents or size, but personally I think Eubank vs Brook would probably have a 50/50ish/pickem line oddswise or Brook would be a slight favorite. Neither guy has done all that much really, but I think Brook is on a higher plain of done nothing than Eubank so the size disparity is equaled out for me. So it all comes down to what you've done & Brook beating Porter is better than any 3 or 4 wins Eubank has. I understand Eubank has a lot of hype doe so I'm sure plenty will disagree, but I'm not buying it cuz Eubank ain't beat nobody of note yet & even the 147lb guys many fans endlessly criticize Brook for fighting (myself included quite often) are better than anything Eubank has done. So sure weight is important, but opposition is important to if not more important.

[New England]

I obviously disagree on the first bolded & its about more than 1 on 1 matchups between potential opponents or size, but personally I think Eubank vs Brook would probably have a 50/50ish/pickem line oddswise or Brook would be a slight favorite. Neither guy has done all that much really, but I think Brook is on a higher plain of done nothing than Eubank so the size disparity is equaled out for me. So it all comes down to what you've done & Brook beating Porter is better than any 3 or 4 wins Eubank has. I understand Eubank has a lot of hype doe so I'm sure plenty will disagree, but I'm not buying it cuz Eubank ain't beat nobody of note yet & even the 147lb guys many fans endlessly criticize Brook for fighting (myself included quite often) are better than anything Eubank has done. So sure weight is important, but opposition is important to if not more important.

you're not demonstrating nearly enough of a gap in class for you to illustrate to me that you understand the implication of fighting two weight classes above your natural weight. you have to be a heck of a lot better at boxing to be able to make up for a 10-15 difference in fight night weight. eubanks damn near killed a natural middleweight named nick blackwell.

this isn't floyd mayweather we are talking about. it's kell brook. demonstrate to me why you think kell brook is such an insurmountably better fighter that he should be matched evenly with eubanks [lol....] a true middleweight.


you guys really don't seem to understand what two weight classes means in boxing. natural WWs and MWs are completely different sized people. i think the alphabet titles, manufactured weight climbing and manufactured paper champions are desensitizing all of you to what it means for a prime welterweight to fight a prime middleweight.

this is not adrien broner outgrowing being a massive 130 and 135 jumping to 140, but that's actually a great example. broner looked like a monster with a hellish chin and freak power at 130. by the time he got to 147, only a 4 lb difference from the gap between ww and MW, he looked completely ordinary. just look at the paulie fight, or porter. he looks like a totally different guy now that he's no longer fighting smaller guys.

broner's now grown naturally into 140-147 lbs. see how he does against a 154 lber, never mind a middleweight.

to give you an idea, in spite of the fact that eubanks has a lesser resume, p4p, the way all resumes are typically compared when guys aren't at the same weight, he'd be a MASSIVE, and i mean massive, favorite to not only beat brook but to stop him. brook's biggest advantage at WW is his physical strength. eubanks would absolutely manhandle him. perhaps you guys genuinely can't understand what that means, and that's fine. i just urge you to watch more boxing, get to a gym yourself, and talk to as many boxers from as many weight classes as you can. in time, you'll start to say, "oh, yeah, two weight classes definitely matter."

[Eff Pandas]

you're not demonstrating nearly enough of a gap in class for you to illustrate to me that you understand the implication of fighting two weight classes above your natural weight. you have to be a heck of a lot better at boxing to be able to make up for a 10-15 difference in fight night weight. eubanks damn near killed a natural middleweight named nick blackwell.

this isn't floyd mayweather we are talking about. it's kell brook. demonstrate to me why you think kell brook is such an insurmountably better fighter that he should be matched evenly with eubanks [lol....] a true middleweight.


you guys really don't seem to understand what two weight classes means in boxing. natural WWs and MWs are completely different sized people. i think the alphabet titles, manufactured weight climbing and manufactured paper champions are desensitizing all of you to what it means for a prime welterweight to fight a prime middleweight.

this is not adrien broner outgrowing being a massive 130 and 135 jumping to 140, but that's actually a great example. broner looked like a monster with a hellish chin and freak power at 130. by the time he got to 147, only a 4 lb difference from the gap between ww and MW, he looked completely ordinary. just look at the paulie fight, or porter. he looks like a totally different guy now that he's no longer fighting smaller guys.

broner's now grown naturally into 140-147 lbs. see how he does against a 154 lber, never mind a middleweight.

to give you an idea, in spite of the fact that eubanks has a lesser resume, p4p, the way all resumes are typically compared when guys aren't at the same weight, he'd be a MASSIVE, and i mean massive, favorite to not only beat brook but to stop him. brook's biggest advantage at WW is his physical strength. eubanks would absolutely manhandle him. perhaps you guys genuinely can't understand what that means, and that's fine. i just urge you to watch more boxing, get to a gym yourself, and talk to as many boxers from as many weight classes as you can. in time, you'll start to say, "oh, yeah, two weight classes definitely matter."

I'll take a guy who's 13lbs lighter who's beaten world class opposition over a guy who's 13lbs heavier who's only beaten domestic level opposition all day every day & I think I'd have a winning record overall.

Again I understand people got an inflated opinion of Eubank cuz of his daddy & the attention he's gotten, but he's a domestic level guy with world class potential still even if he's 13lbs heavier than Brook. And I don't disagree weight plays into things 100%, but give me the lighter guy who's done better **** here. I suspect most fans feel that way to regardless of weight so Brook>Eubank.

And f#ck man I mean at the end of the day I think both guys are or would have been KTFO anyway so its of little importance reallllly.

[Damn Wicked]

Odds:

Hagler vs. Duran 4/1 Hagler
Hagler vs. Hearns 6/5 Hagler
Hagler vs. Leonard 3/1 Hagler

Hopkins vs. Trinidad: 2/1 Trinidad
Hopkins vs. De La Hoya: 2/1 Hopkins

Canelo vs. Khan: 5/1 Canelo

GGG vs. Brook: 9/1 GGG

I know Kell Brook is really good welterweight champ, but it doesn't change the fact that this fight is worse than Canelo-Khan.

Anyway, I respect Brook and will support him in GGG fight. He has big balls which GGG has never gotten.

What ?!!! Canelo vs Khan was only 5/1 odds in favor of Canelo......WTF?!
I would have expected 20/1 or even worse.

Almost nobody gave Khan a chance of winning that fight and almost everyone expected Khan to get KO'd.

[New England]

I'll take a guy who's 13lbs lighter who's beaten world class opposition over a guy who's 13lbs heavier who's only beaten domestic level opposition all day every day & I think I'd have a winning record overall.

Again I understand people got an inflated opinion of Eubank cuz of his daddy & the attention he's gotten, but he's a domestic level guy with world class potential still even if he's 13lbs heavier than Brook. And I don't disagree weight plays into things 100%, but give me the lighter guy who's done better **** here. I suspect most fans feel that way to regardless of weight so Brook>Eubank.

And f#ck man I mean at the end of the day I think both guys are or would have been KTFO anyway so its of little importance reallllly.

how long and how hard have you been watching boxing? and be honbest. have you ever been to a gym, seen or spoken with pro fighters, or been to many live fights?

this just can't be more wrong, and history couldn't be more filled with fighters going up in weight and losing. do you really think weight classes are that easily discounted? and not just one, but two? a welterweight contender and a MW contender aren't all that far apart in actual [not p4p] ability? go ask the fighters and see what they say . brook's biggest advantage at WW is his size. at MW he'd literally be tiny. do you understand what that means?


you remember or are reminded of the weight climbers who are successful because it's damn hard to do. don't confuse a handpicked career with what brook is trying to do, which is fight a higher ranked p4per who is two weight classes higher.


you can count on one hand the fighters who have done that. mosley and duran are the two comparisons.

then if you go to lesser opponents you have jones [ruiz,] hopkins [tarver,]


start naming fighters who have done what you're proposing, which is to fight a p4p fighter two weight classes above, and win.


then list the guys who have tried it in the past and failed, even the greats. robinson was stopped by maxim. napoles and benvenuti lost to monzon [napoles was a great WW, and bevenuti a jmw champion prior to being a middleweight one.] griffith lost to him, too. armstrong got a draw with garcia.

these are some of the best fighters ever, and they're coming up short. what makes you think kell brook has a better chance than eubanks, a middleweight?

[M Bison]

Before this GGG fight was announced most people agreed that Brook was the #1 Welterweight in boxing due to his schooling of #3 welterweight Porter (who Thurman arguably lost to). Multiple polls showed this. His only real threat was the emergence of Spence Jr who still has ways to go.

Then all of the sudden the GGG fight gets announced and people act like Brook is a mediocre Rod Salka level Welterweight? Some even say that he is the equivalent of glass-chinned Giraffe Queen Khan't? GTFO here with this B.S.

Brook was far superior to Thurman if we compare their performances against Porter, Brook gave an undefeated Porter a boxing lesson. Brook is a class above Thurman and I like Thurman.

Brook would also beat the sht out of Garcia. And common opponents have said he is better and hits harder than Canelo, which was why Giraffe Queen Khan't ducked him like the plague.

It's mainly the GGG haters and Giraffe Queen Khan't fans at work here, trying to discredit both Brook and GG at the same time. It's absolutely disgraceful and I will fight this till the end.

Sugar Ray Brook vs GGG = #1 Welter vs #1 Middleweight. The new Fight of the Century!

Bbbbbut Kell Brook too small doe

[therealpugilist]

Bbbbbut Kell Brook too small doe

like I said...another mismatch for your hero.....rinse wash repeat

[SN!PER]

Golovkin would clean out the 168 division. He belongs at 168, not 160.

Welterweights shouldn't fight men who would knockout Super Middleweights.

[Eff Pandas]

how long and how hard have you been watching boxing? and be honbest. have you ever been to a gym, seen or spoken with pro fighters, or been to many live fights?

this just can't be more wrong, and history couldn't be more filled with fighters going up in weight and losing. do you really think weight classes are that easily discounted? and not just one, but two? a welterweight contender and a MW contender aren't all that far apart in actual [not p4p] ability? go ask the fighters and see what they say . brook's biggest advantage at WW is his size. at MW he'd literally be tiny. do you understand what that means?


you remember or are reminded of the weight climbers who are successful because it's damn hard to do. don't confuse a handpicked career with what brook is trying to do, which is fight a higher ranked p4per who is two weight classes higher.


you can count on one hand the fighters who have done that. mosley and duran are the two comparisons.

then if you go to lesser opponents you have jones [ruiz,] hopkins [tarver,]


start naming fighters who have done what you're proposing, which is to fight a p4p fighter two weight classes above, and win.


then list the guys who have tried it in the past and failed, even the greats. robinson was stopped by maxim. napoles and benvenuti lost to monzon [napoles was a great WW, and bevenuti a jmw champion prior to being a middleweight one.] griffith lost to him, too. armstrong got a draw with garcia.

these are some of the best fighters ever, and they're coming up short. what makes you think kell brook has a better chance than eubanks, a middleweight?

I think you are on a soapbox about some **** I'm not even talking about let alone arguing with you about.

Eubank is no Joey Maxim or Carlos Monzon. He's a prospect with domestic level wins. Granted Brook is no Ray Robinson himself, but these guys are huge drops down from the great fighters you are bringing up for some reason I'm not grasping at f#cking all. I mean Nobuhiro Ishida moved from MW to HW. Guillermo Jones moved up for WW to CW or some such ****. Moving up with success to beat non-#1 in the game guys isn't THAT uncommon a practice or something only atg fighters are capable of. Its all relative & skill actually matters too. And I don't believe its even arguably on paper Brook is more accomplished with his world class wins at 13lbs lighter than Eubank's domestic wins at 13lbs heavier. Eubank isn't all that by any means. He's a good looking prospect who gets hit too much vs the caliber of guys he's fighting at this point.

And don't get it twisted I'm not saying EITHER guy is or was going to win over GGG so idek wtf you are going on about with something like that either.