Comments Thread For: Fonfara-Smith PBC on NBC Sees Increase With 1.32M Rating

[killakali]

Why don't your go, Trini?

who's Trini? I don't know him. I go to fights in LA where I am from. Your such a PBC fan I figured you would be there with your dinero in hand to support. Since it didn't sell to well I bet you can get a good deal at the door

[R_Walken]

You dumb motherphuker really trying to compare main events cards on NBC to PBC?

http://thecomeback.com/queensberryru...the-start.html

“I did a show on NBC two, three years ago. I had a $150,000 rights fee. I had to live in that,” she said. “At the peak of my show, I had 3.2 (million watching), they had 4.2. He went out and spent $8 million on marketing, production, the time buy and only got a million more people to watch than I did. My marketing budget on that show was $5,000.”

Her NBC cards were dirt cheap and I believe aired during the day or on Sundays during the day NOT prime time you idiot. Operating in a 150k budget. PBC a infinitely higher budget hell the main event A side fighter makes more then duva s entire budget yet the ratings are terrible dead last in prime time ratings new alltime low 1.2m viewers. And duva was paid by NBC. PBC was the other way around they paid NBC millions for the air time to get these ratings disasters. LMAO

AND why are you comparing the debut first broadcast on fox a different channel with new viewers to this? Why not compare it tk NBC debut card? the fox card you brought up was not on NBC but since you want to talk about it it debuted with 30% less viewers then NBC debut did. And the next fight just like every card on NBC fell in ratings fox specifically fell by 30%. Fox ratings are actually more disturbing then NBC you idiot because their ratings started at a lower point and the trend of every card on every network PBC practically settng new alltime lows is actually steeper on fox. It took nbc 4 cards and 10 months to fall to the ratings fox did in just 4 months and 2 cards.

These ratings are terrible for the time slot they air and terrible for the money PBC paid for the air time. That's like saying pbc is doing great on espn because their ratings are higher the FNFs. Leaving out the fact those fights were on ESPN2 not ESPN, we're on Friday not Saturday night and oh yeah FNF had a dirt cheap 50k budget and their fights made money while PBC pays millions in purses alone with overall budget 30-50 times that and loses MILLIONS each show.

Your clearly the dumb Mother f.ucker

Yes thats why to Dan Rafeal boxing on NBC is a hit at 1.6 3 years ago but a failure and disappointment at 1.35 , Strictly it's the cost and has nothing to do with agenda, Your such a peasant crumb.

So you can't compare 2 of the same sporting events on the same day , same channel slightly different time because Main Events is poor and spent no $ on marketing. Your so desperate to actually be right , I honestly believe your actually ******ed especially after reading you defending the Canelo/Smith fight

That's what I mean when I say moving the Goalposts, Well PBC beats Main Events card but it still a lost because it cost too much

[bigdunny1]

Your clearly the dumb Mother f.ucker

Yes thats why to Dan Rafeal boxing on NBC is a hit at 1.6 3 years ago but a failure and disappointment at 1.35 , Strictly it's the cost and has nothing to do with agenda, Your such a peasant crumb.

So you can't compare 2 of the same sporting events on the same day , same channel slightly different time because Main Events is poor and spent no $ on marketing. Your so desperate to actually be right , I honestly believe your actually ******ed especially after reading you defending the Canelo/Smith fight

That's what I mean when I say moving the Goalposts, Well PBC beats Main Events card but it still a lost because it cost too much

Of course the cost and time of day you air matter you haymon **** sucker. Just like if you are a blockbuster movie with a 200mil production cost then do you have the same box office expectations of a indy movie with a 2 mil production cost? The indy movie can release on a early weekday on just 500 screens and gross 10mil and be a success. But if the blockbuster which released on a Friday to over 4000 movie theaters if it grosses just 10mil that's a massive failure and the movie bombed losing countless millions. Same applies with PBC they spend hundreds of mils and aired on sat prime time and are doing only slightly better then dirt cheap cards that aired early in the day on the same network. PBC lost millions to call it a success by essentially comparing it to a indy movie that did about the same is beyond ****** ed. LMAO

care to comment on the NBC exec who made the PBC deal being fired. I'm sure he disagrees with your assessment that these are good ratings. Or the report today that NBC will cut ties with PBC at the end of the year? But sure these are great ratings right?

[R_Walken]

Of course the cost and time of day you air matter you haymon **** sucker. Just like if you are a blockbuster movie with a 200mil production cost then do you have the same box office expectations of a indy movie with a 2 mil production cost? The indy movie can release on a early weekday on just 500 screens and gross 10mil and be a success. But if the blockbuster which released on a Friday to over 4000 movie theaters if it grosses just 10mil that's a massive failure and the movie bombed losing countless millions. Same applies with PBC they spend hundreds of mils and aired on sat prime time and are doing only slightly better then dirt cheap cards that aired early in the day on the same network. PBC lost millions to call it a success by essentially comparing it to a indy movie that did about the same is beyond ****** ed. LMAO

care to comment on the NBC exec who made the PBC deal being fired. I'm sure he disagrees with your assessment that these are good ratings. Or the report today that NBC will cut ties with PBC at the end of the year? But sure these are great ratings right?

Hey numb nuts that's not a good comparison it's a TV series not movies.

It's like comparing the amazing race & Survivor. 2 TV shows that are basically the same thing and saying well The amazing race gets better ratings but it failed
Because the budgets too high according to you a nobody on the Internet.

As far as the NBC exec I have no idea and neither do you so why bring it up. why do you only qoute 4 people or sources Fat Dan, Steve Kim, A random guy on Reddit and 1 lance Pugmire article. 2 of those sources are known PBC / Haymon critics

[bigdunny1]

Hey numb nuts that's not a good comparison it's a TV series not movies.

It's like comparing the amazing race & Survivor. 2 TV shows that are basically the same thing and saying well The amazing race gets better ratings but it failed
Because the budgets too high according to you a nobody on the Internet.

As far as the NBC exec I have no idea and neither do you so why bring it up. why do you only qoute 4 people or sources Fat Dan, Steve Kim, A random guy on Reddit and 1 lance Pugmire article. 2 of those sources are known PBC / Haymon critics

So I get it either you pretend you don't know how ratings work and that you tend to get better ratings during primetime then you do early in day. Then you pretend you don't understand how one product losing hundreds of millions to get the same ratings in prime time that a dirt cheap show in the day time that actually turns a profit so that one is a success while the other is literally one of the worst sports prime time ratings. And now we are back to the media is just lying and making this all up? I guess the ESPN exec who was behind bringing PBC and got fired is just media lies too? LMAO Damn your momma should of swallowed you instead of releasing a Crack baby into the world.

[R_Walken]

So I get it either you pretend you don't know how ratings work and that you tend to get better ratings during primetime then you do early in day. Then you pretend you don't understand how one product losing hundreds of millions to get the same ratings in prime time that a dirt cheap show in the day time that actually turns a profit so that one is a success while the other is literally one of the worst sports prime time ratings. And now we are back to the media is just lying and making this all up? I guess the ESPN exec who was behind bringing PBC and got fired is just media lies too? LMAO Damn your momma should of swallowed you instead of releasing a Crack baby into the world.

Ok Timmy , you want a direct comparison here you go
The 2 main events ratings I could find on NBC did 1.6 & 1.2 and probably down hill from there but let's say it avg 1.4 but probably lower as it went along I'd love to see those ratings

According to Pigeons post 4 NBC afternoon cards did 1.3,1.0,1.2,1.1 for a avg of 1.15 so it did at least 83-85% of what Main events did probably equal or more if they did a 3rd and fourth show were announced

So according to you one is a huge success because it came from Rafeal your holy grail and one is a abysmal failure

Again where are you getting that they've list 100s of millions from reddit or Rafeal ? Or are you secretly the PBC accountant and knkw the real numbers. Shouldn't they have folded by now according to you.

If your too ****** or ******ed to admit that Steve Kim and Rafeal are biased and have a agenda then I don't know what to say. Like I said earlier I honestly believe your handicapped or a GB employee

Did I say lies? No I said we don't know the reason the execs got fired.

I don't know if the PBc will be a sucess or failure but don't think its all negative like you think. I just think your pathetic , a guy ( term used loosely ) signs up the day after the first PBC card and has spent what 3000+ plus posts usually this size of a midterm paper to either sh.it on a comoany trying to give more free boxing to fans or to digitally guzzle Canelos *****. I mean your defending Canelo / Smith as a PPV fight and hope the company giving fights on network TV gets shut down .

You realize how f.ucking ******ed that logic is right

[bigdunny1]

Where am I getting that they blew hundreds of millions? Their own investors who are suing them said it *** boy

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/5/2/11553662/investors-sue-waddell-reed-over-al-haymon-premier-boxing-champions-boxing-news

PBC rocketed to prominence early last year with its frequent and sometimes compelling matchups on channels including NBC, NBCSN, ESPN, CBS, FOX, Fox Sports 1, Spike TV, and Bounce. It garnered even more attention on the business end as a time-buy with money flowing from Haymon's corporate en****** to the television networks instead of the other way around.

Naturally, this requires massive amounts of funding - hundreds of millions of dollars - which came from the asset management company Waddell & Reed via fund manager Ryan Caldwell.

Well turning the business model upside down seems to have made some shareholders of Waddell funds extremely unhappy. Fight Opinion's Zach Arnold was first to discover a February lawsuit in Kansas City federal court filed against Waddell by shareholders of funds purportedly invested in Haymon's corporate en******. The investors are looking to recover "at least $300 million, and perhaps as much as $925 million, of losses and other damages" as a result of "willful and gross breaches of fiduciary duty towards shareholders to i) prudently monitor and supervise the Funds' investments to meet the investment objectives as stated in the Funds' Prospectuses, ii) supervise the Funds' portfolio managers, and iii) rigorously enforce the Funds' compliance and ethical codes of conduct."

The complaint describes Haymon as a "shady entrepreneur" of a "potentially criminal" company.

"Unbeknownst to investors, starting in or about April 2013, the Trustees permitted and approved purchases by Ryan Caldwell, one of the two portfolio managers of the Funds, of approximately $925 million of private securities in a start-up and potentially criminal company in the field of professional boxing promotion. These purchases had no economic justification, but rather were motivated by Caldwell's personal interest and benefit. In fact, Caldwell acknowledged at or about the time that this boxing promotion company faced short-term losses of hundreds of millions of dollars (the Funds' money), and personally attended business meetings on behalf of this company's shady entrepreneur, Alan Haymon, to pledge future financial support from the Funds."

"As a portfolio manager, Caldwell was supposed to be allocating the Funds' money based on the objective merits of the prospective companies and the investments, not acting to personally ingratiate himself with a boxing promoter or attempt to assist in the management of a private company... In fact, in June 2014, Caldwell actually resigned from the Funds, supposedly to join one of Haymon's companies as ‘Chief Operating Officer.' Caldwell's resignation raises issues over whether he was fired by the Trustees for making these investments, or whether he had a quid pro quo agreement with Haymon's company."

Caldwell is described as the driving force behind the funds' investments in Media Group Holdings (MGH) which plaintiffs believe is a shell holding company that then invested in one or more of Haymon's corporate en******.

According to the complaint, an unnamed hedge fund had previously declined to invest in a boxing promotion company "because revenues went to the fighters, making the investment unprofitable." In discussions with a contact at the hedge fund, Caldwell allegedly learned of Haymon's plans "to buy up the management deals for a ‘critical mass' of fighters and use their leverage to dictate profits."

The complaint reports alleged investment amounts which allowed Bloody Elbow to calculate each fund's apparent to-date losses in market value. According to the complaint, there were six investments into the MGH holding company for a total of $925,339,000.

According to Waddell's website, as of Mar. 31, 2016 these six investments now have a total market value of only $357,747,414, which implies that the investments allegedly used to finance the PBC have collectively lost over $567 million in a little less than three years.

Losses are a part of investing, but in this case the plaintiffs argue that Waddell did not make material disclosures about MGH, made erroneous reports in financial statements, and failed to disclose the risks of its MGH investments. "The Trustees should never have allowed Caldwell to use almost $1 billion of the Funds' assets to participate in boxing promoter ‘fantasy camp,'" plaintiffs write.

How does one allegedly lose over $500 million in a combat sports organization in just under three years? Boxing's mega-manager Al Haymon might have just provided the blueprint: time-buys, loss leaders, allegedly spend hundreds of millions of dollars buying boxers' contracts.

This is the "weather the storm" part of the investment, something Caldwell thought would take three to five years and we're just starting year four. We seem to have some pretty unhappy Waddell fund shareholders and Haymon's facing an antitrust lawsuit from boxing's big promoters, but only time will tell how much value the PBC call option will maintain.

[bigdunny1]

Let me guess the investors who have access to more info then the public sees are lying too? And only a b1tch like you would think getting 80% of the ratings is good when Kathy duva got a production budget of 150k per show that she was paid from NBC. While PBC paying NBC millions for the buy time then paid millions to produce each show out of pocket. The fight purses for PBC main event A side fighter alone dwarfs the entire show budget for duva. And you telling me she still pulled better rating and you still don't get it? Or your head is too busy bobbing on haymons **** so you don't want want to get it. PBC has been a total mess.

[R_Walken]

Where am I getting that they blew hundreds of millions? Their own investors who are suing them said it *** boy

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/5/2/...ns-boxing-news

PBC rocketed to prominence early last year with its frequent and sometimes compelling matchups on channels including NBC, NBCSN, ESPN, CBS, FOX, Fox Sports 1, Spike TV, and Bounce. It garnered even more attention on the business end as a time-buy with money flowing from Haymon's corporate en****** to the television networks instead of the other way around.

Naturally, this requires massive amounts of funding - hundreds of millions of dollars - which came from the asset management company Waddell & Reed via fund manager Ryan Caldwell.

Well turning the business model upside down seems to have made some shareholders of Waddell funds extremely unhappy. Fight Opinion's Zach Arnold was first to discover a February lawsuit in Kansas City federal court filed against Waddell by shareholders of funds purportedly invested in Haymon's corporate en******. The investors are looking to recover "at least $300 million, and perhaps as much as $925 million, of losses and other damages" as a result of "willful and gross breaches of fiduciary duty towards shareholders to i) prudently monitor and supervise the Funds' investments to meet the investment objectives as stated in the Funds' Prospectuses, ii) supervise the Funds' portfolio managers, and iii) rigorously enforce the Funds' compliance and ethical codes of conduct."

The complaint describes Haymon as a "shady entrepreneur" of a "potentially criminal" company.

"Unbeknownst to investors, starting in or about April 2013, the Trustees permitted and approved purchases by Ryan Caldwell, one of the two portfolio managers of the Funds, of approximately $925 million of private securities in a start-up and potentially criminal company in the field of professional boxing promotion. These purchases had no economic justification, but rather were motivated by Caldwell's personal interest and benefit. In fact, Caldwell acknowledged at or about the time that this boxing promotion company faced short-term losses of hundreds of millions of dollars (the Funds' money), and personally attended business meetings on behalf of this company's shady entrepreneur, Alan Haymon, to pledge future financial support from the Funds."

"As a portfolio manager, Caldwell was supposed to be allocating the Funds' money based on the objective merits of the prospective companies and the investments, not acting to personally ingratiate himself with a boxing promoter or attempt to assist in the management of a private company... In fact, in June 2014, Caldwell actually resigned from the Funds, supposedly to join one of Haymon's companies as ‘Chief Operating Officer.' Caldwell's resignation raises issues over whether he was fired by the Trustees for making these investments, or whether he had a quid pro quo agreement with Haymon's company."

Caldwell is described as the driving force behind the funds' investments in Media Group Holdings (MGH) which plaintiffs believe is a shell holding company that then invested in one or more of Haymon's corporate en******.

According to the complaint, an unnamed hedge fund had previously declined to invest in a boxing promotion company "because revenues went to the fighters, making the investment unprofitable." In discussions with a contact at the hedge fund, Caldwell allegedly learned of Haymon's plans "to buy up the management deals for a ‘critical mass' of fighters and use their leverage to dictate profits."

The complaint reports alleged investment amounts which allowed Bloody Elbow to calculate each fund's apparent to-date losses in market value. According to the complaint, there were six investments into the MGH holding company for a total of $925,339,000.

According to Waddell's website, as of Mar. 31, 2016 these six investments now have a total market value of only $357,747,414, which implies that the investments allegedly used to finance the PBC have collectively lost over $567 million in a little less than three years.

Losses are a part of investing, but in this case the plaintiffs argue that Waddell did not make material disclosures about MGH, made erroneous reports in financial statements, and failed to disclose the risks of its MGH investments. "The Trustees should never have allowed Caldwell to use almost $1 billion of the Funds' assets to participate in boxing promoter ‘fantasy camp,'" plaintiffs write.

How does one allegedly lose over $500 million in a combat sports organization in just under three years? Boxing's mega-manager Al Haymon might have just provided the blueprint: time-buys, loss leaders, allegedly spend hundreds of millions of dollars buying boxers' contracts.

This is the "weather the storm" part of the investment, something Caldwell thought would take three to five years and we're just starting year four. We seem to have some pretty unhappy Waddell fund shareholders and Haymon's facing an antitrust lawsuit from boxing's big promoters, but only time will tell how much value the PBC call option will maintain.

Cool thanks for the article, It'll be interesting how it plays out, weren't you thinking the TR lawsuit was bound to cripple and fold the PBC also . Do you have a financial stake in the outcome. Did you invest all your food stamps into Waddel

do you have any of the other ratings for those Main Events cards ? And as a fan of the sport why are you ok with a Canelo /Smith PPV and against free boxing on network TV that is putting on better and more competitive fights than that heaping pile of sh.it

[bigdunny1]

Cool thanks for the article, It'll be interesting how it plays out, weren't you thinking the TR lawsuit was bound to cripple and fold the PBC also . Do you have a financial stake in the outcome. Did you invest all your food stamps into Waddel

do you have any of the other ratings for those Main Events cards ? And as a fan of the sport why are you ok with a Canelo /Smith PPV and against free boxing on network TV that is putting on better and more competitive fights than that heaping pile of sh.it

I don't give 2 shyts what main event ratings did you the fool who brought them up to try and divert attention from dog crap TV ratings. Ratings so bad days after the show the exec behind PBC going to NBC gets fired. A week later media reports say NBC is cutting all ties with PBC at the end of this year. You look ****** arguing that these are good ratings and even dumber bringing up duva ratings when she had a 150k budget. You want to talk about canelo go to one of the many canelo posts and talk about it b1tch boy. This post about PBC and their terrible ratings stop trying to change the subject because I exposed your lame azz. Wipe your mouth you still have haymons juices on your lip.