If Haymon doesn't bail out Top Rank... is Arum finished?

[Sweet Jones]

Have you seen some of what ESPN televises these days, especially during the summer months when there's a dead period with the off-seasons in the NFL and NBA?

ESPN is losing television rights battles left and right to other networks, and Haymon offered them a deal that was too good to refuse.

So, you honest believe that:

a) ESPN turned over its own boxing brand (FNF) to Haymon for a reported 24 dates and a 2 year period
b) Moved boxing from ESPN 2 (where FNF was broadcasting) to the 'mothership station' ESPN
c) Gave up dates on ABC also (remember, that's part of the ESPN deal too)

And they did all this for a measly 8 million bucks (what Haymon's time buy reportedly cost)? You really believe that you can buy dayum near 50 hours of time on ESPN and ABC for that amount of money?

Come on, bruh.

[IMDAZED]

No I didn't say PBC wants to be HBO or they need 1,000 boxers to be HBO. I said IF THEY ONLY wanna be as big as HBO then they DON'T need a thousand guys on PBC's roster or associated with PBC promoters.

And who's not speculating when it comes to PBC? They haven't exactly press released an agenda of their goals for the next 10 years. I'm just going off of whats been said by Haymon, Watson & others associated with Haymon & what all this money indicates to me. You don't need a billion dollars to get a TV deal & to throw boxing on 8 or 9 different channels & to buy up a couple hundred guys' contracts. Thats overkill in my eyes.

I really don't want to argue semantics -- bottom line is that we're all speculating but I'm not gonna pretend I know what will or won't help the model fail ie. "if they don't do this then..."

But I do wanna know what Haymon said. I missed that.

[Eff Pandas]

I really don't want to argue semantics -- bottom line is that we're all speculating but I'm not gonna pretend I know what will or won't help the model fail ie. "if they don't do this then..."

But I do wanna know what Haymon said. I missed that.

This is a segment from the previous most notable article about Al Haymon in boxing in 2011 before the last 12 or so months when he's gotten into the limelight more.

Early on, Haymon tenaciously sought connections with the networks. He called Xavier James, the vice president for sports programming at HBO until 2004, at all hours daily, on three separate lines, and yet Haymon remained a mystery to James. Haymon penetrated boxing, James said, “with a great deal of guile and almost no personal interaction.”

“If I wanted to,” James said Haymon often told him, “I could run boxing.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/sp...game.html?_r=0

And Sam Watson's, the public persona of Haymon, quote is from within the last 12 months talking about PBC being bigger than the UFC eventually.

Like I said maybe Haymon is doing all this just to get a TV deal cuz there is legit ****** money in live sports these days & as I've been learning more about this live sport niche in TV its only going to get bigger as its one of the most loyal stuck to the TV markets in all of media, but based on some of the things said, the money being thrown around in year 1, the 8 or 9 networks & the amount of fighters connected to Haymon I believe its some bigger. And honestly its something I've been saying someone in boxing will eventually do cuz boxing is about the most notable sport in the world without some elite league of athletes under one umbrella. Boxing is soooooo ripe for this, assuming someone is actually attempting it lol, but I say someone is.

[IMDAZED]

This is a segment from the previous most notable article about Al Haymon in boxing in 2011 before the last 12 or so months when he's gotten into the limelight more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/sp...game.html?_r=0

And Sam Watson's, the public persona of Haymon, quote is from within the last 12 months talking about PBC being bigger than the UFC eventually.

Like I said maybe Haymon is doing all this just to get a TV deal cuz there is legit ****** money in live sports these days & as I've been learning more about this live sport niche in TV its only going to get bigger as its one of the most loyal stuck to the TV markets in all of media, but based on some of the things said, the money being thrown around in year 1, the 8 or 9 networks & the amount of fighters connected to Haymon I believe its some bigger. And honestly its something I've been saying someone in boxing will eventually do cuz boxing is about the most notable sport in the world without some elite league of athletes under one umbrella. Boxing is soooooo ripe for this, assuming someone is actually attempting it lol, but I say someone is.

Sam Watson is definitely NOT the public persona of Haymon. They work together -- since the music days -- but the two aren't very similar.

But anyway, I think it's bigger than just some TV deals but that's the ideal next step and it will happen. The next step after that I think is fairly obvious but I'll keep my thoughts to myself for now.

[Eff Pandas]

Sam Watson is definitely NOT the public persona of Haymon. They work together -- since the music days -- but the two aren't very similar.

Sometimes I think people just like to disagree about minor inconsequential **** here LOL. Public persona, public representation, whatever you wanna call it, he's the guy lotsa mfers thought was Al Haymon until a couple years & hell some people probably still do think is Haymon. He's without question the closest thing to Haymon that represents Haymon's interests. I ain't saying Sam Watson digs transsexuals too or that Sam's favorite hobby is peeking from behind curtains like Haymon. He's one of the 3 or so people Haymon actually seems to talk to on a regular basis & probably knows where the bodies are buried & whats going on. Thats what I'm saying & I don't believe its even debatable. But I mean sure a cat like Haymon is probably not showing all his cards to anyone & if he were to die suddenly I bet a lot of his businesses, including PBC, would be huge clusterf#cks for that very reason.

But anyway, I think it's bigger than just some TV deals but that's the ideal next step and it will happen. The next step after that I think is fairly obvious but I'll keep my thoughts to myself for now.

No please speculate brother. I mean this plan is clearly bigger than a TV deal imo, but I love seeing people speculate on this ****. So few people talk about the long term angle of this in a non-"they'll be outta business any day now" way, its interesting to hear some new thoughts & opinions.

[IMDAZED]

Sometimes I think people just like to disagree about minor inconsequential **** here LOL. Public persona, public representation, whatever you wanna call it, he's the guy lotsa mfers thought was Al Haymon until a couple years & hell some people probably still do think is Haymon. He's without question the closest thing to Haymon that represents Haymon's interests. I ain't saying Sam Watson digs transsexuals too or that Sam's favorite hobby is peeking from behind curtains like Haymon. He's one of the 3 or so people Haymon actually seems to talk to on a regular basis & probably knows where the bodies are buried & whats going on. Thats what I'm saying & I don't believe its even debatable. But I mean sure a cat like Haymon is probably not showing all his cards to anyone & if he were to die suddenly I bet a lot of his businesses, including PBC, would be huge clusterf#cks for that very reason.



No please speculate brother. I mean this plan is clearly bigger than a TV deal imo, but I love seeing people speculate on this ****. So few people talk about the long term angle of this in a non-"they'll be outta business any day now" way, its interesting to hear some new thoughts & opinions.

I don't know why people thought Sam Watson was Al Haymon. Watson has been in boxing longer than Haymon. You can't infer much as both have very different roles. And personalities methinks.

Anyway, if you step back and look at what Haymon is trying to do by moving away from the PPV model, just ask yourself, what would be the ideal next step to stay ahead of the pack?

[Eff Pandas]

I don't know why people thought Sam Watson was Al Haymon. Watson has been in boxing longer than Haymon. You can't infer much as both have very different roles. And personalities methinks.

Bro you know mfers were thinking dat doe. And again I'm not saying they are they same guy or they threesoming a chick with **** while Eiffel Towering them. I'm just saying Sammy Watson is the public incarnation of Al Haymon insomuch as he actually goes into public (which Haymon does not, in any productive way in the boxing world anyway, I suspect he might go out to eat from time to time & do random things we all do) & talks to the media (which Haymon does not) & is probably THE guy who talks boxing with Haymon the most in regards to PBC & PBC's strategies & goals.

Anyway, if you step back and look at what Haymon is trying to do by moving away from the PPV model, just ask yourself, what would be the ideal next step to stay ahead of the pack?

Investing in a space shuttle that goes just barely into space with that ****** Airlines guy? Cmon man quit being cryptic spit it out man.

[Scipio2009]

What are you talking about Felix Sturm for?

Sturm was talking retirement even before he tested positive after the Chudinov rematch.

He's now certainly out of the picture and Chudinov's manager has already started negotiations for a fight with Ramirez in the fall.

If Ramirez unifies the WBO/WBA titles then he'd have the same number of titles as the Degale-Jack winner.

Simply lining up the names that Degale has access to (through Haymon, Eddie Hearn, and Hearn's affiliaion with the Sauerlands); not singling out Sturm as a guy that Degale should chase, just noting that he's a money fight that's available to him.

Yes, Ramirez could have two belts, the same as potentially Degale, if he were to 1)get the Chudinov fight and 2)beat Chudinov.

He gets the belts ... and then what?

[Scipio2009]

http://nypost.com/2016/05/20/msgs-sh...th-mma-clause/

Proposed MMA clause would ‘end boxing in NY as we know it’

http://nypost.com/2016/05/17/proposed-mma-clause-would-end-boxing-in-ny-as-we-know-it/

MSG’s shot at boxing mega-fight may vanish with MMA clause

simply a matter of political movement, which is okay.

have Lou, the folks behind MSG, the folks behind Barclays Center, and the rest of the folks in combat sports who bring business to New York, go to the state legislature and make their case.

Things are cool through the end of September, but when the NY Chamber of Commerce and the trade unions looks at things, and they see that they'll likely miss out on bringing in events like Garcia/Berto winner vs Thurman/Porter winner, Wilder vs Fury for the undisputed heavyweight championship, Kovalev vs Ward, possibly Miguel Cotto's retirement fight with Juan Manuel Marquez, and a host of other matchups (both guys need to keep on winning, but Wilder-Joshua in another 16 months would be another massive event), adjustments and changes will be made.

state/local politics

[Scipio2009]

Obviously Haymon moves differently I just don't see how a Hearn-like relationship with Arum is bad in any way. Plus I could see Haymon picking up some TR guys like he picked up some Hearn guys. Haymon needs more big names, Arum needs more TV time. Its win win. If ego's &/or money prevent things from happening fair enough its nothing new or anything, but one of the bigger problems in boxing today is too many egos & too much greed already.

It appears that I view Bob Arum as being a far more toxic player than you seem to view Bob Arum to be.

Haymon/Hearn works, in my opinion, both guys seem to be able to cordially talk business, both guys seem to know where the other has their vision set (Haymon with his PBC venture; Hearn, leveraging his longterm deal with Sky Sports, to re-establish the UK as one of the world's top boxing markets [arguably the most vibrant at the moment]), and Eddie Hearn has a stand-up reputation in his home market (outside of Frank Warren and Mick Hennessey, Eddie Hearn seems to have no other enemies in the UK/European fight scene).

Arum's reputation, in essence, is **** everywhere; HBO isn't chomping at the bit to work with him, MGM Resorts isn't really going out of their way to do business with him in Vegas, Banner Promotions/Zanfer Promotions aren't bending over to work with the guy, etc.

Haymon will likely troll for talent (when deals start to come up, I have no doubt that Haymon will look to a guy like Cameron Dunkin to see if there is any interest in moving fighters away from Top Rank for their next deals) at Top Rank, but I don't see the value in working with Bob Arum.

Todd DuBoef/Carl Morretti, on the other hand, are different (outside of Lou DiBella having beef with Morretti, DuBoef and Morretti both still have stand-up reputations in the sport); remove Bob Arum from the picture and you basically remove near all of the bad blood (Peter Nelson/MGM Resorts/Haymon/etc) against Top Rank.