The Final Verdict: Did Pac Have a Full Thickness Rotator Cuff Tear?

[travestyny]

Good post. The OP makes his case with facts and evidence, not with emotion

That's how one should debate.

Thanks, man. I definitely appreciate it!

[travestyny]

3) When Kobe said that he played with his torn rotator cuff and I'm sure he practiced with it too, what did you say? Not possible? Did you do the same type of analysis? Did you check if he could throw with his RIGHT shoulder which he actually injured? Again, what did you say about Kobe that allowed him to play? You may get your answer for Manny!!!

Let me address this because I believe I addressed all of your other points in this post. I never, ever said that Kobe couldn't play with the injury. I do not know at what point his injury became a full-thickness injury, and I never speculated about it. Don't know why you are trying to put words into my mouth. What I did say, and still stand by, is that he could not play for months after the surgery. That is clear.

Kobe first took a shot at 7 months!!!

Manny was all out playing in 3 months!


Now look at Manny's form:







As considerthis stated, his incorrect form causes him to shoot from behind his head WITH BOTH HANDS. That is clear, and that is NOT the proper way to shoot a basketball.

Your off hand should not be involved in the actual shot. It is just to guide the ball up!


Even the way he guides the ball up to behind his head would cause major issues. For him to then involve it in shooting is even more of an issue!
Look at the evidence, man!!!! Stop being blind!

[travestyny]

Hello, what do you not understand that Manny is left handed? His injury occurred on his right shoulder.

The below explains how wrong you are about raising your arm so early.

hahahaha. Dude, you are not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes!!!! Just stop it. He is talking about exercises that Manny should do. He is NOT talking about swimming at one month, which is not allowed and which I've posted a billion medical documents that confirm.

What do you think about this?:

"What is surgery like, and how long is the rehab?"

“There’s the initial surgery, the post-op phase doing just motion exercise with a therapist, where you have someone else moving your arms to keep you limber for six weeks."
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/nba-...angeles-lakers

You might think I have no idea what I'm talking about. How about this doctor, hmmm?

This makes sense since Michael Koncz said that after Manny got the stitches removed, he would be in a sling for...surprise surprise, ONE MONTH!

Koncz said the arthroscopic surgery involved five incisions. Each incision had three to four stitches that were removed by Pacquiao’s personal physician Dr. Regina Bagsic in Manila last week. “It’s healing very well,” said Koncz. “Manny will be in a sling to immobilize his shoulder for four weeks then will begin therapy.".
http://www.philstar.com/sports/2015/...mannys-surgery

You're doing well in the poll, but you're losing, bro.

[travestyny]

Of course they wouldn't want to give it away you dumb muthafucka

Did you read any of that? Try again, and then come back and explain. Would love to hear your logic, since the other guy can't explain it.

[aboutfkntime]

Didn't read the whole thread, and I'm not gonna get into this one..... but I did read the first post by travestyny, holy **** LMAO

All I can say is..... 1) I watched the fight..... 2) “I’m fine. It’s God’s work. I never saw a doctor. I never did rehab. All I did was to swim in the sea as often as I could. The salt water healed my wound.”

[ADP02]

Well well well. Look what I found. From DOING RESEARCH, I was able to pinpoint the exact date that they said he was injured. I TOLD YOU THIS COULD HAVE BEEN THE ONLY DATE.

On April 4, Pacquiao suffered a twisted right shoulder when he and a sparring partner tangled while each threw overhand rights.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...504-story.html

I thought I don't know ****. It's obvious that they were going to say it was on this day.

They then go on to say: Two days later, he was examined, and a tear underneath the rotator cuff in a joint was found

Later they say that they mulled postponing the fight, to the point that Buboy was crying over it:

• He said the doctor told him to rest his shoulder for 30-40 days.

• Pacquiao said he considered postponing the fight but opted against doing so believing he would be allowed injections of numbing agents lidocaine, celestone and bupivacaine, which are legal and were approved by the United States Anti-Doping Agency.

• We all talked. Freddie, even Bubuy, Bubuy even cried... if I can't, we talked about it. But if it heals, if it recovers, its okay, let's just not use it (in training) then on the night of the fight, it will be injected with the numbing agent.

http://www.rappler.com/sports/by-spo...ssion-shoulder

NOW HERE IS YOUR PROBLEM.
April 4th: SUPPOSED INJURY DATE --CONFIRMED
April 7th: Cancels sparring. Roach says overtraining. But now some believe that it was due to an injury that would necessitate a month of rest and possible postponement.
April 8th: "After a rest day, Filipino boxer Manny Pacquiao was back in the ring Wednesday, hitting the mitts for 12 rounds."

"I thought he was overdoing it a little bit, so we had a day off," chief trainer Freddie Roach explained. "Today, we opened the gates, and he kicked my a**. I must have gotten hit with a thousand and two punches today." -- And this is NOT when he was bragging about only using the left hand!
http://news.abs-cbn.com/sports/04/09...r-one-day-rest
April 9th:
You asked me to confirm the video? The video title says running on april 9th. It was reported that he went running on April 9th. It was reported that he was set to spar with his sparring partner on a sparring day, which was April 9th, which is why the sparring partner is present. Do I really need to defend that it was April 9th? The proof is there! Also, Karl Malone visited on April 9th.

Again, they wrapped his hands so he can punch something:
[IMG]http://i62.***********.com/albums/h95/travestyny/Screen%20Shot%202016-05-19%20at%205.14.29%20AM.png[/IMG]

PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS!!! WHY WAS HE PUNCHING ON APRIL 8TH AND SET TO PUNCH ON APRIL 9TH IF THIS INJURY WAS SO BAD AND WAS TO TAKE 30-40 DAYS TO HEAL, AND HE THOUGHT ABOUT POSTPONING??? I THOUGHT HE MISSED SPARRING BECAUSE OF THE INJURY??? LOL

Good, you have the date. The 9th is 5 days after and AFTER Manny saw the doctor.

So did you respond to my other points? Nope.

[ADP02]

Let me address this because I believe I addressed all of your other points in this post. I never, ever said that Kobe couldn't play with the injury. I do not know at what point his injury became a full-thickness injury, and I never speculated about it. Don't know why you are trying to put words into my mouth. What I did say, and still stand by, is that he could not play for months after the surgery. That is clear.

Kobe first took a shot at 7 months!!!

Manny was all out playing in 3 months!


Now look at Manny's form:







As considerthis stated, his incorrect form causes him to shoot from behind his head WITH BOTH HANDS. That is clear, and that is NOT the proper way to shoot a basketball.

Your off hand should not be involved in the actual shot. It is just to guide the ball up!


Even the way he guides the ball up to behind his head would cause major issues. For him to then involve it in shooting is even more of an issue!
Look at the evidence, man!!!! Stop being blind!

Lets just say that you forgot what you said about KOBE. I will remind you.

I told you that Manny was not the only athlete in the world that can play his sport with a rotator cuff tear. I mentioned Floyd and KOBE. When I said KOBE, you said of course he can because he was using meds. DING DING DING!!!

While you do not know that for a fact, now you need to remember that Manny saw a doctor and gave him meds to try to see what he can do with the meds.


After surgery: Sorry but you are being blind. Kobe shoots with his right which is what he injured but Manny shoots with his left which is NOT his inured arm. Easy to understand but I get it. You are desperate and are shooting a lot of crap and hoping something sticks. The problem is that its not sticking except for I see with some FLoyd fans, which is to be expected. HA!

Oh, can you please let me know what your problem is with this? Is it lifting his arm. What?



.

[travestyny]

Good, you have the date. The 9th is 5 days after and AFTER Manny saw the doctor.

So did you respond to my other points? Nope.

What's your point? He saw the doctor apparently on the 6th. He hit the bag on the 8th and was prepared to spar on the 9th. The pictures prove that, and a video of his morning workout. So how are they saying his injury was so bad that he was thinking of postponing the fight???? He goes from thinking of postponing to throwing a zillion punches in 2 days?

April 8th from Freddie Roach:
Today, we opened the gates, and he kicked my a**. I must have gotten hit with a thousand and two punches today.
http://news.abs-cbn.com/sports/04/09...r-one-day-rest

Then look how the dialogue changed.

Sunday, May 3rd from Pacquaio:
"He said the doctor told him to rest his shoulder for 30-40 days."
http://www.rappler.com/sports/by-spo...ssion-shoulder


Monday, May 4th:
Pacquiao’s promoter said in a statement on Monday that doctors had “concluded that with short rest, treatments and close monitoring, Manny could train and, on May 2, step into the ring against Floyd Mayweather”.
http://www.thenational.ae/sport/othe...-fight-fallout


So which is it, team Pac? Were you supposed to rest it for 30 - 40 days or were you told a short rest was fine? lol

[travestyny]

Lets just say that you forgot what you said about KOBE. I will remind you.

I told you that Manny was not the only athlete in the world that can play his sport with a rotator cuff tear. I mentioned Floyd and KOBE. When I said KOBE, you said of course he can because he was using meds. DING DING DING!!!

While you do not know that for a fact, now you need to remember that Manny saw a doctor and gave him meds to try to see what he can do with the meds.


After surgery: Sorry but you are being blind. Kobe shoots with his right which is what he injured but Manny shoots with his left which is NOT his inured arm. Easy to understand but I get it. You are desperate and are shooting a lot of crap and hoping something sticks. The problem is that its not sticking except for I see with some FLoyd fans, which is to be expected. HA!

Oh, can you please let me know what your problem is with this? Is it lifting his arm. What?
.

Dude, in that conversation you were trying to prove that Kobe could play with a messed up rotator cuff (one in which we do not know the severity of the injury at the point that he was playing with it). Kobe already mentioned he was playing with a messed up shoulder and taking pain meds for it.

Where you mess up, once again, is that Manny didn't even have meds during the fight! That's first of all.

Second, look at my previous reply, buddy. Why did he say that the doctor said he should rest for 30 - 40 days? Why were they mulling postponing to the point that Bubuy was crying? Why did they say "let's just not use it in training" and then suddenly there is a statement from Roach saying how much he got hit in training TWO DAYS LATER and there is a picture of him with his hands wrapped, plus there is a video of him throwing the right in the park. lol. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!

See what he can do with the meds? You said they canceled sparring because of the injury. Why was he set to spar? Why was he still punching???

Are you slow? I posted the pictures. Pacquiao not only lifts his arm way back when he shoots, but he also shoots using both hands because his form sucks. Do you know what that would do to your arm when you are still recovering from full thickness rotator cuff surgery? Furthermore, how the hell was he swimming so early. The damn quotation I gave you said the therapist would be moving his arm for 6 weeks! I also sent a quotation that said he would be in a sling for 1 month!

You are being ******ed!

[ADP02]

hahahaha. Dude, you are not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes!!!! Just stop it. He is talking about exercises that Manny should do. He is NOT talking about swimming at one month, which is not allowed and which I've posted a billion medical documents that confirm.

What do you think about this?:

"What is surgery like, and how long is the rehab?"

“There’s the initial surgery, the post-op phase doing just motion exercise with a therapist, where you have someone else moving your arms to keep you limber for six weeks."
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/nba-...angeles-lakers

You might think I have no idea what I'm talking about. How about this doctor, hmmm?

This makes sense since Michael Koncz said that after Manny got the stitches removed, he would be in a sling for...surprise surprise, ONE MONTH!

Koncz said the arthroscopic surgery involved five incisions. Each incision had three to four stitches that were removed by Pacquiao’s personal physician Dr. Regina Bagsic in Manila last week. “It’s healing very well,” said Koncz. “Manny will be in a sling to immobilize his shoulder for four weeks then will begin therapy.".
http://www.philstar.com/sports/2015/...mannys-surgery

You're doing well in the poll, but you're losing, bro.

Deflection city. Not even talking about swimming.

The doctor is telling you that Manny would be working on lifting his arm at 4 weeks out. Remember that you said it was not possible at 5-6 weeks out to lift his arm so high and no doctor would recommend that?
I told you it may be difficult but Manny's doctor said its what they would be working on!!! Doctor says it in this video and also commented in another video that they would start full ROM at around 6 weeks actively.



Swimming: Wrong AGAIN!!! Manny is trying to rehabilitate his shoulder not make it worse. Only someone with an agenda thinks that he is training for the Olympics. Below is proof that aquatic exercises have been used to rehab rotator cuff.

Surgery to repair rotator cuff (RC) tears is a commonly performed orthopaedic procedure with the aim of reducing pain and improving function. Surgery is followed by rehabilitation and recommendations for postoperative rehabilitation include; exercise therapy, continuous passive motion machines and aquatic therapy. Currently, there is uncertainty in the literature as to what constitutes best post surgical rehabilitation.


Various postoperative rehabilitation programmes have been advocated to guide postoperative rehabilitation all aim-ing to restore ROM, improve strength and function [6].Considerable heterogeneity in description of postoperative rehabilitation protocols exists within the literature.

Studies have included early loading exercises of the RC [7–13], the use of aquatic therapy [14], videotaped home exercise programmes [15], the use of continuous passive movement(CPM) [16–20] and, rehabilitation provided in in-patient and outpatient settings [21]. Differing outcome measures have been reported in the literature post RC repair including; pain scores, ROM and functional measures. Currently, there is ambiguity in the literature as to what constitutes the effective rehabilitation following RC repair [3,6,10,16,22].