Almost The Man: But Big George Is Not A Top Five Heavyweight

[tonytucker]

Drugs!

It is impossible to read a Mike Casey article and NOT learn something. GREAT READ as always, very insightful, loved the aliteration and symbolism at the start, followed by the in depth analysis in the middle and end. If Mike Casey ever teaches a course in boxing history or writing...sign me up.

Personally, I rank George right at #10, behind Frazier. My main reason being his lack of staying power at the top and the overall quality of his defenses. While the wins over Frazier, Norton, and Moorer are impressive....they were the only significant Title wins of his careers. Also, it's tricky; but one must add and divide between his two careers, IMO. Maybe George deserves to be ranked higher; but, at the moment..he's at #10.

Once again, fantastic piece of literature.

How can you rate Foreman behind Frazier, are you under the influence of drugs! Foreman defeated Frazier!
Later brother brologs.

[THE REAL NINJA]

How can you rate Foreman behind Frazier, are you under the influence of drugs! Foreman defeated Frazier!
Later brother brologs.

rating fighters is not always about who can beat who ..tyson for sure could beat most fighters from the past but it does not put him over them in terms of greatness

[K-DOGG]

How can you rate Foreman behind Frazier, are you under the influence of drugs! Foreman defeated Frazier!
Later brother brologs.

I'll admit it sounds odd; but there's logic to it. When I rate a fighter, I try to look at the whole of his career. Joe was past his best when he fought Foreman, though, in truth...style-wise, I think George would have always beaten Frazier. However, just because Fighter A can beat Fighter B...it does not necessarily mean that Fighter A is a greater fighter, or in this case, a greater Heavyweight Champion.

Here's what I mean. As a Champion, or over his championship reign, Joe Frazier beat Buster Mathis Sr. (although this was for a vacant title), Oscar Bonavena, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis and Muhammad Ali.

George, on the other hand, beat a post-Ali Frazier (the first Ali fight took a lot out of Frazier and the third finished him), Ken Norton, and Michael Moorer. Joe "King" Roman, Axel Shulz, Bobby Crabtree (might have been Crawford Grimsley...don't remember; but you get the idea), and Lou Savarese hardly meet the standards of Frazier's most notable opponents, with the possible exception of Shulz, who was a good fighter.

As a Champion, Joe's defenses warrant more merit that George's. That is my primary logic for placing Joe ahead. He, overall, was a better champion.

The only way, IMO, to rank fighters is based on historical achievement; and, in that regard, Joe trumps George.

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

How can you rate Foreman behind Frazier, are you under the influence of drugs! Foreman defeated Frazier!
Later brother brologs.

Frazier defeated better fighters, including Ali - who was the only man to knock Foreman out. Other than Ali and Foreman, nobody else was able to beat Frazier. Foreman lost to Jimmy Young and retired for ten years. The same Jimmy Young that Shavers spanked in three rounds.

[Dude]

Frazier defeated better fighters, including Ali - who was the only man to knock Foreman out. Other than Ali and Foreman, nobody else was able to beat Frazier. Foreman lost to Jimmy Young and retired for ten years. The same Jimmy Young that Shavers spanked in three rounds.

Though Foremans loss to Jimmy Young is somehow forgiveable as he clearly lost his heart and confidence after the Ali fight. And Jimmy Young was exactly the kind of fighter an already frustrated and impatient Foreman wouldn't have wanted to meet even though they fought sth. like 3 years afterwards.

If you look at the fights Foreman had after his monumental clash with Ali none of them really were huge confidence builders. He very much struggled with Lyle and it took him 5 rounds instead of 2 rounds to get rid of a weaker version of Joe Frazier. I have to admit that I havent seen his other 3 fights but I doubt that they helped the cause that much.

I'm sure Foreman would have beaten Young if they had fought before the Ali fight. Jimmy was a good fighter though and he might have made it quite an interessting style matchup for some time.

It's maybe comparable to forgiveing Sonny Liston his loss to Leotis Martin.

[rocco1252]

I almost took this person serious, until I saw him rate Tyson as the third best heavyweight of all-time.

and no demsey or baer, this kid has no idea what he's talking about.

[rocco1252]

rating fighters is not always about who can beat who ..tyson for sure could beat most fighters from the past but it does not put him over them in terms of greatness

i disagree I think if Tyson went against anyone with talent and experience in the ring he would fold as he did in most of his big fights such as with holyfield and lewis. If he fought Louis he would be schooled, same thing with Foreman and Dempsey imagine him with Ali wouldnt that be a friggan show. Tyson shouldnt even be ranked in the top 10 of anyone's list.

[The_One77]

i stopped reading when he said that George Foreman was behind Jim Jeffries

[Dude]

i stopped reading when he said that George Foreman was behind Jim Jeffries

In that case you really didn't start reading in the first place...

[The_One77]

well, i read the first paragraph where he was over exagerrating about his feelings about the question...
my my....the drama