The Best 1980-2015

[TheUptownKid]

You would not have these names in your own list? Who would you have?



We all know boxing doesn't just revolve around your hard on for Floyd Mayweather.

I'd have the names not the order. James Toney is 20 spots over Andre Ward when he's beaten noone on your list but Andre Ward beat Froch and he's 10 spots behind him. Just an example.

[soul_survivor]

I'd have the names not the order. James Toney is 20 spots over Andre Ward when he's beaten noone on your list but Andre Ward beat Froch and he's 10 spots behind him. Just an example.

Froch has a better run of wins at smw and some of them were more impressive as well. Ward has one out and out top win and that's Froch, yes but the Kessler win was disgusting and should have ended in a disqualification. Ward even skipped out on a Bute fight and claimed he needed a holiday.

Ward only even makes it onto my list because of his standout skill set and how comfortable he looked v Froch. He doesn't score so well in other categories.

In terms of Toney, he won numerous belts in numerous divisions and even managed to score impressive wins at cruiser and heavy, where he was woefully undersized and years past his best. Not to mention his skill set is better than Ward and Froch.

[-PBP-]

reaction to adversity is too subjective. If you dominate everyone you face, you likely haven't reacted to adversity at all. domination shouldn't be a negative.

entertainment value is based on what? for example you will score floyd low on this yet he sells out fights (with the highest ticket prices) and sells more PPV's than anyone, indicating most people find him entertaining.

quality of opponents is too subjective as well. Are you going to arbitrarily decide if someone is shot or not? is it just name value?

Spot on. But we all know why those are criteria. So he can penalize a certain dominant fighter and reward a certain entertaining little fighter.

[TheUptownKid]

Froch has a better run of wins at smw and some of them were more impressive as well. Ward has one out and out top win and that's Froch, yes but the Kessler win was disgusting and should have ended in a disqualification. Ward even skipped out on a Bute fight and claimed he needed a holiday.

Ward only even makes it onto my list because of his standout skill set and how comfortable he looked v Froch. He doesn't score so well in other categories.

In terms of Toney, he won numerous belts in numerous divisions and even managed to score impressive wins at cruiser and heavy, where he was woefully undersized and years past his best. Not to mention his skill set is better than Ward and Froch.

Boxing is politics, you have to understand that. There is a reason Ward was rated #2 p4p for years and hasn't taken a loss since. Some of boxing is simply the opportunity you have to fight elite fighters. Bute would have been a good fight, but he was exposed as very beatable. Ward is leagues better than Jack and Jack "beat" Bute.

When I look at boxers I look at their skill sets. I love James Toney as a fighter, he was awesome, but his resume speaks for itself. He took title fights and won, but he also lost convincingly to the top names he faced. Froch he was okay, a little gimmicky, but I feel the fact that he lost convincingly to Ward while still getting wins over Groves and Kessler says a lot. Ward also was absolutely the dominant fighter in the Kessler fight despite how you may view it. Thinking he deserved a dq doesn't mean that he did not prove to be the faster, better defensive and overall more skilled fighter in that match.

[The Big Dunn]

You would not have these names in your own list? Who would you have?



We all know boxing doesn't just revolve around your hard on for Floyd Mayweather.

what a passive aggressive way of deflecting from very fair and reasonable questions. The least you could do is define the criteria you are using so the readers have context.

Question-how does head to head matchups affect your ranking? for example, Will Morales be ahead of Manny since he beat Manny when he still had something in the tank but lost 2x after Raheem took everything he had left when he dominated him?

[The Big Dunn]

Spot on. But we all know why those are criteria. So he can penalize a certain dominant fighter and reward a certain entertaining little fighter.

Yeah, looks that way.

[soul_survivor]

what a passive aggressive way of deflecting from very fair and reasonable questions. The least you could do is define the criteria you are using so the readers have context.

Question-how does head to head matchups affect your ranking? for example, Will Morales be ahead of Manny since he beat Manny when he still had something in the tank but lost 2x after Raheem took everything he had left when he dominated him?

My criteria listed in my first post.

[soul_survivor]

Boxing is politics, you have to understand that. There is a reason Ward was rated #2 p4p for years and hasn't taken a loss since. Some of boxing is simply the opportunity you have to fight elite fighters. Bute would have been a good fight, but he was exposed as very beatable. Ward is leagues better than Jack and Jack "beat" Bute.

When I look at boxers I look at their skill sets. I love James Toney as a fighter, he was awesome, but his resume speaks for itself. He took title fights and won, but he also lost convincingly to the top names he faced. Froch he was okay, a little gimmicky, but I feel the fact that he lost convincingly to Ward while still getting wins over Groves and Kessler says a lot. Ward also was absolutely the dominant fighter in the Kessler fight despite how you may view it. Thinking he deserved a dq doesn't mean that he did not prove to be the faster, better defensive and overall more skilled fighter in that match.

Winning a fight because you managed to cut an opponent due to headbutts and elbows doesn't make you more skilled.

And n hindsight, we can call look back and say Bute maybe wasnt that good but the reality is, froch made him look "not so good". Fact is, at the time Bute was dangerous and Ward didn't wan the fight.

And like I said, skill set is a criteria and Ward does score well in that, which is why he gets ranked at all but he doesn't score as highly in other departments (there is no negative marking). So Froch ranks higher because he has a pretty good skill set himself but managed to beat more title holders and better opposition and do so in a more effective, entertaining manor.

Ward however, is still fighting and a win over Kovalev followed by other wins against other top light heavies would rank him higher overall if the list was to be made in another 5 years or so.

[The Big Dunn]

My criteria listed in my first post.

Those are broad and subjective. I asked how specifically you would be assessing those. There are multiple ways to define some of your criteria, for example impact on the sport and entertainment value.

Adversity is also problematic because you could be punishing someone for being dominant. what is adversity-being knocked down, down on the cards, cut???

So a definition of each of your criteria would help the reader understand how you see things so we can honestly evaluate your list.

[TheUptownKid]

Winning a fight because you managed to cut an opponent due to headbutts and elbows doesn't make you more skilled.

And n hindsight, we can call look back and say Bute maybe wasnt that good but the reality is, froch made him look "not so good". Fact is, at the time Bute was dangerous and Ward didn't wan the fight.

And like I said, skill set is a criteria and Ward does score well in that, which is why he gets ranked at all but he doesn't score as highly in other departments (there is no negative marking). So Froch ranks higher because he has a pretty good skill set himself but managed to beat more title holders and better opposition and do so in a more effective, entertaining manor.

Ward however, is still fighting and a win over Kovalev followed by other wins against other top light heavies would rank him higher overall if the list was to be made in another 5 years or so.

Ward didn't just foul Kessler to death, he beat his ass in the duration and secondly every ref says "protect yourself at all times". I'd never say Ward is the cleanest fighter, but I'd say he takes advantage of his opportunities, just like floyd uses his elbow, fury uses his straight arm, ali used to hold, every southpaw steps on feet. It's the hurt business it isn't ballet.

And not only did Froch make Bute not look so good, but several fighters made him look not so good. Andrade touched him up before that and should have gotten the decision. Bute made a living fighting nobody at all in Montreal and if you chose to believe that hype, cool but I judge fighters based on what they do versus top notch comp and Ward has shown up.

I don't care about belts there's too many to count, it's about what you do when the bright lights are on and Ward hasn't disappointed yet. When you say impact on the sport, floyd dominated this generation with smart boxing and was recognized as doing so. Ward does the same and has been recognized for doing so. He'll beat Kov and be respected as the tactician he is but my point is as a boxing fan you should be able to see this now. But I'll wait for you to change your rankings dec 2016.