what will it take to be the new greatest of all time

[Kid Achilles]

If Mayweather beats Hatton, Margarito, and DLH (who I don't even consider a great fighter at this stage in his career) he will be the best fighter since Pernell Whittaker but no way in hell would he be considered greater than Robinson or even close to his level. He would have to go on to face many more challenges to even come close to being on the same page as Robinson, Pep, Greb, etc. It's doubtful he'll ever do it, even considering his talent.

[ejenki]

I dont think that we will ever find another G.O.A.T. because right now there is entirely to much money in the sport. Also boxing isnt as competitive as it was in the past like Ali who had so many people who could push him when they fought in the ring or a fighter like Sugar Ray who won 173 fights. As long as money plays an important part in the sport nobody is going to fight that many fights are take less money to make that fight happen. In my opinion it's hard to compare greatness over several generations. It's hard to compare Ali to Jack Johnson or Ray Leonard to Ray Robinson when those eras in boxing were completely different and their competition was different. We can only name the greatest fighter in that one generation.

[wmute]

I dont think that we will ever find another G.O.A.T. because right now there is entirely to much money in the sport. Also boxing isnt as competitive as it was in the past like Ali who had so many people who could push him when they fought in the ring or a fighter like Sugar Ray who won 173 fights. As long as money plays an important part in the sport nobody is going to fight that many fights are take less money to make that fight happen. In my opinion it's hard to compare greatness over several generations. It's hard to compare Ali to Jack Johnson or Ray Leonard to Ray Robinson when those eras in boxing were completely different and their competition was different. We can only name the greatest fighter in that one generation.

amen

[armani_model]

To be the greatest of all time you have to beat the best that is infront of you when they were at their best.

Lewis was great but i wouldnt put him in the top 10 of greatest heavyweight, just for the pure fact that he didnt beat Tyson or Holyfield at their prime.

Roy jones could have been the greatest aswell, but he should have got in the ring with alot more stronger fighters like Calzaghe.

As for Mayweather, if he was to fight Hatton, Cotto, Magarito before he retires and beats them, i think he will be classed as the greatest of all time.

[armani_model]

If Mayweather beats Hatton, Margarito, and DLH (who I don't even consider a great fighter at this stage in his career) he will be the best fighter since Pernell Whittaker but no way in hell would he be considered greater than Robinson or even close to his level. He would have to go on to face many more challenges to even come close to being on the same page as Robinson, Pep, Greb, etc. It's doubtful he'll ever do it, even considering his talent.

Just read the post when i posted mine.

Amen to you!

[THE REAL NINJA]

What I'm saying is, it secures your place in history, knowing that you can overcome that loss and correct it, Ali wouldn't be the man he's thought of today if he didn't comeback and beat Frazier, Norton and Spinks.. and I doubt Leonard would if he didnt have the legendary fights with Duran.

i see what you are saying but if Ali beat Frazier the first time around then it takes away from the greatness of Joe which would make the win mean less . Frazier would have had a very short time as champ maybe never fought Foreman so on and so on .Norton same thing if Ken didnt beat Ali he would be rated in the same way Golata is today taking away from Ali's legacy. If Ali won his fight with Holmes then Larry never had his undefeated streak he would have won the title later but Spinks and Tyson would be right around the corner to take it away.All of that would change history as we know it, even the effect of Tyson over Holmes would not have been what it was without Ali, this is what it means when people say he transcended his sport

[wmute]

If Mayweather beats Hatton, Margarito, and DLH (who I don't even consider a great fighter at this stage in his career) he will be the best fighter since Pernell Whittaker but no way in hell would he be considered greater than Robinson or even close to his level. He would have to go on to face many more challenges to even come close to being on the same page as Robinson, Pep, Greb, etc. It's doubtful he'll ever do it, even considering his talent.

I don't get your logic...

lets forget about dlh and 154 for a second (it seems like 154 has a not so exciting present (ouma, karmazin, santos, the guy who defeated santos) filled with the remnants of a very exciting recent past (dlh, mayorga, vargas, mosley who are all past it and making money by fighting each other)

you say that even by beating hatton and margarito he is "not even close to robinson's level"

I am sorry but beating the toughest competition available in 4 weight classes (all of them quite rich in talent) sounds, sounds like enough to me to be mentioned as one of the all time greats.

"He would have to go on to face many more challenges" like what? fight taylor, calzaghe, tarver, bell and become the man in 8 divisions?

You are usually a sensible poster, but I think your love for the old times is getting in the way of your logic

unless you mean challenges like tubercolosis or being in a plane crash: then you would have a good point with Joe Gans and Pep, though... not many fighters have had THOSE health problems and still be damn competitive.

But what then if Floyd does not get some permanent damage he does not deserve to be on the same page? come on...

(note how Robinson's only problem was partying too hard and the IRS, so that's his own business, I don't count the IRS and champagne as challenges)

[Azteca]

to be great - you have to capture the attention of the world. you need to have an accomplishment that stands out from the rest.

ie:
-johnson was the first black hw champ.
-dempsey was the first million dollar fighter in the business.
-louis single-handely revitalized boxing. no single sporting event (louis - schmeling) had ever borne such worldwide weight.
-robinson/hearns were both undefeated as welterweights but it was robinson who fought the best competition of maybe any area.
-clay chose not to fight in the war, thus no state would allow him to fight. he then changed his name to ali and had one of the most brilliant careers of all time.

in short, all of the fighters above had that special "something".

in today's day and age of ppv, i really doubt we'll see another fighter who will be labelled as the greatest of all time. boxing has sputtered as we have had a serious lack of glamorous champions. add that with the fact that boxing is declining in all areas, makes for a very uncertain future.

[THE REAL NINJA]

true PPV is taking away from it but in the 80's Tyson was right on track to take the g.o.a.t title from Ali so it can still happen

[THE REAL NINJA]

I don't get your logic...

lets forget about dlh and 154 for a second (it seems like 154 has a not so exciting present (ouma, karmazin, santos, the guy who defeated santos) filled with the remnants of a very exciting recent past (dlh, mayorga, vargas, mosley who are all past it and making money by fighting each other)

you say that even by beating hatton and margarito he is "not even close to robinson's level"

I am sorry but beating the toughest competition available in 4 weight classes (all of them quite rich in talent) sounds, sounds like enough to me to be mentioned as one of the all time greats.

"He would have to go on to face many more challenges" like what? fight taylor, calzaghe, tarver, bell and become the man in 8 divisions?

You are usually a sensible poster, but I think your love for the old times is getting in the way of your logic

unless you mean challenges like tubercolosis or being in a plane crash: then you would have a good point with Joe Gans and Pep, though... not many fighters have had THOSE health problems and still be damn competitive.

But what then if Floyd does not get some permanent damage he does not deserve to be on the same page? come on...

(note how Robinson's only problem was partying too hard and the IRS, so that's his own business, I don't count the IRS and champagne as challenges)

you have to understand that most of Robinson's opponents in his prime and after were on the same level as Mayweather's very best opponents so far . thats what the difference is fron then and now