Can't find online oddmakers for Ward vs Barrera...

[daggum]

What has the mandatory status done? He fought Rubio in 2014. 1.5 years, nothing happens.

Kovalev was lucky enough to have a division of competitors. Golovkin is in a division of Chickensons.

It's not fair, it's just the way it is. It's a matter of 1. what is a reasonable amount of time to wait for a big name Middleweight and 2. Do you let these younger guys wait for you to age further and show signs of slippage before luring them in.

they were in the same position, did the same exact thing, but got different results so you seem to be holding it against ggg because others ducked him? yea that's not fair. actually in fact he went above and beyond what kovalev did by trying to fight everyone in his division and the division above. hard to say this guy didn't pursue greatness simply because he didn't challenge everyone at any price.

[-PBP-]

It's got him the IBF belt, and soon a chance at Wbc, via megafight or high profile forfeit. That's not bad for 1.5 yrs, a lot better than a fat Paul Smith

Ward could retire today and have Froch, Kessler, Abraham, Dawson, Bika on his resume. And if all goes has planned, he will be fighting the #1 p4p fighter in the world this year.

GGG doesn't have his Froch or Kessler yet. His best win is Martin Murray and he's 34.

You can degrade Ward's career all you want but the reality of the situation is that GGG is 34 and has no signature wins.

[Robbie Barrett]

******ed first sentence? how so? you see you actually have to use facts and evidence to disprove an argument. simply saying something is ******ed doens't actually disprove anything.

the statement was ggg stayed at 160 because ward ducked him. this is essentially a true statement. why is it true? well a number of reasons but ggg is a natural 160 pounder so thats the division he's going to campaign in. but ggg said he would fight anyone at 154-168. now did his words match his actions? lets go through it. he tried to fight froch. froch said no. he tried to figth ward. ward said no. his actions were consistent with his words. could he have fought other lesser guys at 168? sure but once again thats not his natural division so he stayed at 160 because he couldn't get any big fights. so the statement ward turning him down made ggg stay at 160 is true. if ward had accepted the ggg fight ggg would have moved up to 168 at least for that fight but since he didn't accept that fight ggg stayed at 160.

i know you will come back with well he could have fought ward at the end of 2016 so i will address that.

as time passed he built up a following, gained more fans, gained more belts/opportunities at 160 and made the statement that he was trying to unify 160 unless a huge fight became available. did his actions match his words? he became wbc mandatory, beat lemieux in a unification, and offered saunders a career high payday. so yes he was being consistent with his actions.

the only fight that was offered to him in another division was the ward fight. now this is subjective to whether or not its a big fight. ggg's team doesn't think so. maybe you do but i would argue that is irrelavent since he is wbc mandatory and a ggg-canelo fight is much much bigger than a ward fight and he was assured he would get that fight. also the 50-50 split ward wanted does not match their drawing power making turning down the offer an easy decision.

essentially what you are doing is ignoring all the context and all the scenarios that are happening. you are just saying ggg should have moved up! what i am doing is breaking down why that never happened. i listed perfectly good reasons why it hasn't happened. the best reason you can seem to come up with is well he should have taken a bad deal just to prove he is so great. ok if thats your argument that's fine. i will simply disagree.

The WBC situation would have been cleared up if Golovkin didn't keep agreeing to step aside, which goes against his goal. So no he hasn't kept his word. He was willing to move up for Froch and Chavez, so the weight wasn't a problem. Recently his team said they were interested in fighting Hopkins at 168 so the money isn't a problem because Hopkins isn't a big draw. Which leaves us with 1 reason he didn't want to fight Ward, Ward's too good.

[MDPopescu]

Ward could retire today and have Froch, Kessler, Abraham, Dawson, Bika on his resume. And if all goes has planned, he will be fighting the #1 p4p fighter in the world this year.

GGG doesn't have his Froch or Kessler yet. His best win is Martin Murray and he's 34.

You can degrade Ward's career all you want but the reality of the situation is that GGG is 34 and has no signature wins.

... I don't want that -- Ward wants that... By fighting Smiths and by chasing Murdocks as of lately.

[daggum]

Ward could retire today and have Froch, Kessler, Abraham, Dawson, Bika on his resume. And if all goes has planned, he will be fighting the #1 p4p fighter in the world this year.

GGG doesn't have his Froch or Kessler yet. His best win is Martin Murray and he's 34.

You can degrade Ward's career all you want but the reality of the situation is that GGG is 34 and has no signature wins.

well if you think bika, dawson, and abrham are signature wins then ggg has plenty of those. ggg also wasn't in a tournament where everyone had to fight each otehr and he had all his fights at home and never had to travel to otehr countries while his opponents fought in 4 different countries. also the kessler fight should have been a clear dq but he used his home status to save him there.

ggg also isn't american so him being 34 is a result of having to spend many many years getting people to notice him just to put himself into the position hes in now. he wasn't on tv from the start like floyd or ward. ggg made it here in spite of the odds. ward used the odds to his favor and rigged things like the super six in his favor and then carefully selected his opponents for the next 5 years.

[-PBP-]

they were in the same position, did the same exact thing, but got different results so you seem to be holding it against ggg because others ducked him? yea that's not fair. actually in fact he went above and beyond what kovalev did by trying to fight everyone in his division and the division above. hard to say this guy didn't pursue greatness simply because he didn't challenge everyone at any price.

Like I said. Kovalev is in a better division where the top contenders aren't chicken ****. And he made concessions to lure the big names.

Our disagreement is that you are content with GGG vs Monroe and Wade because that's all that is available at 160. Where my position is, since youre that good, try giving concessions to give the big names more incentive to fight you.

I think of it as a more desperate situation because he is 34 and has no major wins. You excuse it because of his circumstance, but fail to realize, that age isn't on his side and by the time he lands a meaningful fight, he may not be the same fighter.

They've basically pigeonholed his entire career into this Canelo fight which still has a lot of negotiating time left.

[-PBP-]

well if you think bika, dawson, and abrham are signature wins then ggg has plenty of those. ggg also wasn't in a tournament where everyone had to fight each otehr and he had all his fights at home and never had to travel to otehr countries while his opponents fought in 4 different countries. also the kessler fight should have been a clear dq but he used his home status to save him there.

ggg also isn't american so him being 34 is a result of having to spend many many years getting people to notice him just to put himself into the position hes in now. he wasn't on tv from the start like floyd or ward. ggg made it here in spite of the odds. ward used the odds to his favor and rigged things like the super six in his favor and then carefully selected his opponents for the next 5 years.

If you're happy with Murray being his best win that's on you. Murray just fought Abraham to an even fight.

And I'm well aware of Golovkin's position. It's not fair.

But it's a matter of do you want to see him top tier opposition in his prime or not? That's our only disagreement.

You're content with his career, I want better fights. And to get those better fights, he needs to budge.

[daggum]

The WBC situation would have been cleared up if Golovkin didn't keep agreeing to step aside, which goes against his goal. So no he hasn't kept his word. He was willing to move up for Froch and Chavez, so the weight wasn't a problem. Recently his team said they were interested in fighting Hopkins at 168 so the money isn't a problem because Hopkins isn't a big draw. Which leaves us with 1 reason he didn't want to fight Ward, Ward's too good.

he has 2 goals big fights and all the belts. hes still on track for both. if he just toko the belt right now he would kill one of those. if canelo doesn't fight him he gets the belt. if he does he gets a big fight. its frustrating that he has to wait but thats what is happening.

he was willing to move up to fight ward but ward said no but you left that out for some reason?

we don't know the money split in any of these potential fights so speculating is kind of pointless. one reason the ward fight didn't happen is because ward isn't a big draw and asked for 50-50. if hopkins asks for 50-50 the fight prob won't happen so i guess ggg is duckign hopkins too?

the thing that you don't seem to understand is that ward has no control. he is now in the position ggg was when ggg started on hbo. he has to hope people fight him and he can't be demanding 50-50. ggg wasn't demanding 50-50 at that point in his career. with more popular fighters so why is ward? just shows you that some figthers are delusional and others aren't.

[Robbie Barrett]

he has 2 goals big fights and all the belts. hes still on track for both. if he just toko the belt right now he would kill one of those. if canelo doesn't fight him he gets the belt. if he does he gets a big fight. its frustrating that he has to wait but thats what is happening.

he was willing to move up to fight ward but ward said no but you left that out for some reason?

we don't know the money split in any of these potential fights so speculating is kind of pointless. one reason the ward fight didn't happen is because ward isn't a big draw and asked for 50-50. if hopkins asks for 50-50 the fight prob won't happen so i guess ggg is duckign hopkins too?

the thing that you don't seem to understand is that ward has no control. he is now in the position ggg was when ggg started on hbo. he has to hope people fight him and he can't be demanding 50-50. ggg wasn't demanding 50-50 at that point in his career. with more popular fighters so why is ward? just shows you that some figthers are delusional and others aren't.

Golovkins side wanted 50-50 you fool.

[HeroBando]

Ward could retire today and have Froch, Kessler, Abraham, Dawson, Bika on his resume. And if all goes has planned, he will be fighting the #1 p4p fighter in the world this year.

GGG doesn't have his Froch or Kessler yet. His best win is Martin Murray and he's 34.

You can degrade Ward's career all you want but the reality of the situation is that GGG is 34 and has no signature wins.

Not for the lack of trying, they were after Froch, willing to concede the weight and hometurf, no multiple tuneups needed. Of course now theres a bigger fight in sight. Canelo brings it on all fronts: the legacy, money, exposure. Let's hope he lives up to his billing.