Why do people think Thomas Hearns would beat Floyd so easily?

[robertzimmerman]

Scipio2009,

I think Floyd's somewhat egomaniacal belief that he's the best fighter to ever put on a pair of glove is legit and, if a fighter is put in the ring with him, he would find a way to beat anyone that's put in there with him. Whether that'd be reality is a different conversation, but, in his mind and his his spirit, that's where Floyd puts himself (though he has seemingly put the caveat at there being some absolute size where he's not as confident).

That's your opinion.

Personally, I think it's laughable to suggest he'd have fought guys like Tommy and Ray had they have been in the same era.

If you don't agree, that's cool. But I watched Floyd for years, I've seen numerous interviews over the years, and the mere thought of it just makes me laugh.

-Floyd wanted the Pacquiao fight in 2010; the only caveat, after Pacquiao simply walked through everything that Miguel Cotto could offer, seemingly without flinching(an outcome that had more than just Floyd thinking "WTF?", was that both fighters be subjected to random blood/urine testing through camp. The fact that such a request(as apparently the only term that Floyd fought Arum on) lead to so many years of 'smoke and mirrors' (fear of needles, giving blood making Pacquiao week, no need to give beyond the bare minimum, not stopping a single fighter since then, etc) casts more doubt on Pacquiao then anything.

I don't agree with any of that.

Way back in 2009/2010, when they were negotiating through the media, there was no drug testing request. It wasn't even on his mind. He never said "From this point forward, I would like all my future opponents to be randomly tested." All Floyd said to the media, was that if the fight were to take place at some point, he'd have to have the bigger split of the purse. The request for drug testing only came to fruition after his big mouth Daddy opened his mouth. Manny would have been well within his rights to have told him where to go, seen as there wasn't even a shred of evidence.

Manny then agreed to the tests, but they couldn't agree with the cut off days, because Floyd had to be in control of everything like always. Manny agreed to be randomly tested for urine on any day, but he requested a window where he'd be left alone leading right up to the fight. But on top of that, he agreed to give a urine and blood sample directly after the fight. That should have been enough. But that wasn't good enough for Floyd. No compromise.

Then there was the PPV split.

Every time they came close, Floyd moved the goal posts.

They Mayweather's eventually went to court and admitted they had zero evidence of any wrongdoing, and had to publicly apologise and pay a fine.

Nobody else had an issue fighting Manny back then.

It's absolutely laughable that after 13 years as a pro, Floyd all of a sudden wanted to clean up the sport of boxing.

Manny was weakened by needles. There's an online article from 2005 (5 years before he and Floyd negotiated) from when he fought Morales, detailing how the doctors had lost his samples, and how they made him give them another one just prior to the fight. It'll still be online.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think it's laughable that you think Floyd wanted to fight Manny back then.

-Floyd fought Oscar for what ended up being 25/75, fought Ricky Hatton for what ended up being 45/55, and then chose to leave the sport(in a move that also led to him growing his casual audience profile to a ridiculous extent; being in one of the main events at Wrestlemania and showing his personally on DWTS brought more awareness to him than an Oscar rematch). You add that negotaitions would've been a pain (even after losing to Floyd, Oscar still got 75/25 on the split for his final big fight; Floyd wouldn't have bent over after knocking off Oscar, full stop).

Floyd's fight with Oscar was the highest grossing fight of all time before his one with Manny. Why would he have chosen to leave the sport, when a rematch against Oscar would have been his second biggest payday? Oscar would have given in to his demands had they have been realistic, because he was absolutely desperate for the rematch. He was adamant that he could beat him. You can see things however you want. In my opinion, their first fight was too close for comfort and he didn't want another fight with him. He could have rematched him, and still raised his profile starring in Wrestlemania the following year.

-If you earnestly believe that Floyd beat Marquez because he came in at 147, there's no need to even talk about the fight.

I don't think that at all. But it just shows how he always looked for an angle.

-Floyd only took the fight to 152 because Alvarez(before any negotiations began) already gave Floyd 152. Why would Floyd willfully give away anything to anyone?

Floyd took the shine off of his victory. Instead of getting full credit for beating a guy who'd at times weighed in as a LHW on fight night, he had people doubting whether or not Canelo struggled to make weight. He just made himself look ****** after he'd said he didn't care what he rehydrated to. If that was true, then he could have let him weigh in at the limit.

-The "glove incident" only happened because an issue popped up with the custom MX gloves(gloves that the Nevada commission even threw out, in case you forgot); once the gloves became a new negotiating point, Floyd pulled out the donkey **** and let everyone know who was calling the shot.

Same old, same old. There's always something with Floyd. He was happy to give Maidana a rematch, yet he took a vacation instead of trying to negotiate with Oscar again for huge money.

-The "IV scandal" was a hit piece crafted up by a paid HBO hitman, attempting to besmirch Floyd's name while going after USADA without any actual evidence; note how the story died within weeks of being pushed (yet Hauser never even thought about investigating the repercussions of "Pacquiao's shoulder injury" and that actual fallout).

That's an absolute joke mate.

Just objectively look into his reasonings and then apply logic.

He was so dehydrated, that he had to perform an IV at home?

Yeah right.

What about the volume he used?

It's just ridiculous.

It's completely illogical.

[robertzimmerman]

And that's the difference between us when discussing how PBF would respond: my 'opinion' is based on in-ring observable actions under similar situations over the course of a 20 year career, and your 'opinion' ignores all that and appears to be driven by emotions due to feeling some kind of way based on alleged out-of-ring stuff.

But hey, you're entitled to your opinion too.

I've taken into account what you've said.

Where I've said to you "I don't care..." it's not because I'm not willing to read your opinions because I'm being rude, it's because there's a world of difference between fighting a young Canelo and a faded Shane, to fighting the freak of nature which was a peak Tommy Hearns.

If you think he'd have signed for the fight and put everything on the line like Ray did, then that's fine.

Personally, after taking into account how he's behaved over the years, I think there'd be more chance of me winning the lottery over the weekend.

He wouldn't fight Manny when it mattered, he wouldn't rematch Oscar for huge money, he couldn't stick to his agreement with JMM, he wouldn't fight Canelo at JMW, and he expects us to believe that he was so dehydrated in May, that he needed an enormous amount of saline at home?

You think that same man would have put himself on the line like Ray did against a peak Tommy Hearns at WW?

You really think that's realistic?

How are you going to ignore all of the above?

Are those the actions of a guy who'd have fought Tommy Hearns?

It just makes me laugh.

[VG_Addict]

I'd favor Hearns over anyone in the current WW division, honestly.

[VG_Addict]

I'll tell you why: because this notion that Mayweather would just b**ch up as soon as he faced some adversity in the ring is unjustified and goes against everything you've actually seen in his ACTUAL fights:

- When Zab Judah busted him in the mouth early in that fight, he didn't lose heart. He became more aggressive and walked Zab down.

- When ODLH peppered him with jabs early in the fight, he didn't just fall back and take it. He stepped up his offensive output over the 2nd half of the fight.

- When Shane Mosley rocked him twice in the 2nd round, he didn't become tentative. 30 seconds later he was letting his hands go and came out in the next few rounds and took back control of the center of ring.

- That not even including his grit in the Corley and Hatton fights, nor his standing in front of guys like Canelo, Cotto, etc

This is the problem with a lot of these Mayweather fantasy fight conversations. Some of y'all underestimate the dude's will and fighting spirit.

Really, why makes you think Floyd Mayweather wouldn't bear down and do what he had to do against Hearns like SRL did? It might not work, but there is nothing to suggest he wouldn't go all out for the W or use his ring IQ to find a way to compete.

Floyd Mayweather ain't no punk, mayne. People need to stop that. Dude is an Olympian, comes from a family of fighters and was literally raised in the ring. You don't become an ATG and stay undefeated this long by fighting to 'not get hurt' or having a heart that pumps koolaid.

I used to hear this same type of isht about RJJ, right up until Alton Merkerson told him he needed those last 2 rounds against Tarver I and RJJ went out there, gritted his teeth and got them. Hell, they used to say it about Ray Leonard, prior to the Duran I.

Mayweather might not win, and it's definitely a tough stylistic matchup for him, but there is no basis to believe he'd 'fight scared'.

For all the talk of Floyd being a coward, he's shown heart plenty of times.

[robertzimmerman]

For all the talk of Floyd being a coward, he's shown heart plenty of times.

It's disgusting for anyone to refer to a boxer as a coward.

He has shown plenty of heart.

But we can't ignore how he's behaved over the years.

In my opinion, it's a fantasy to think that he'd have signed to fight Tommy at WW.

[Tom Cruise]

I think Floyd's somewhat egomaniacal belief that he's the best fighter to ever put on a pair of glove is legit and, if a fighter is put in the ring with him, he would find a way to beat anyone that's put in there with him. Whether that'd be reality is a different conversation, but, in his mind and his his spirit, that's where Floyd puts himself (though he has seemingly put the caveat at there being some absolute size where he's not as confident).

I think this is true, and a good point. But where some (not all) Floyd fans come unstuck is they seem to think that this isnt the same for all ATG's throughout history. Some of them came up against multiple opponents who all had that same attitude too.

Hearns would not go into the Mayweather fight thinking he was an underdog, or that he might lose. He would go in fully prepared, thinking he would win. If he fell behind he would try to do whatever he could to dig out the W, just like you say floyd would.

[robertzimmerman]

I think this is true, and a good point. But where some (not all) Floyd fans come unstuck is they seem to think that this isnt the same for all ATG's throughout history. Some of them came up against multiple opponents who all had that same attitude too.

Hearns would not go into the Mayweather fight thinking he was an underdog, or that he might lose. He would go in fully prepared, thinking he would win. If he fell behind he would try to do whatever he could to dig out the W, just like you say floyd would.

What makes anyone think that Floyd would have taken a Hearns fight?

[Tom Cruise]

What makes anyone think that Floyd would have taken a Hearns fight?

I dont take that kind of thing into consideration with fantasy fights

[MIGGATYMAG]

Hearns is tall, very long reach, great jab and power. He would have killed Floyd.

[Sweet Jones]

I've taken into account what you've said.

Where I've said to you "I don't care..." it's not because I'm not willing to read your opinions because I'm being rude, it's because there's a world of difference between fighting a young Canelo and a faded Shane, to fighting the freak of nature which was a peak Tommy Hearns.

If you think he'd have signed for the fight and put everything on the line like Ray did, then that's fine.

Personally, after taking into account how he's behaved over the years, I think there'd be more chance of me winning the lottery over the weekend.

He wouldn't fight Manny when it mattered, he wouldn't rematch Oscar for huge money, he couldn't stick to his agreement with JMM, he wouldn't fight Canelo at JMW, and he expects us to believe that he was so dehydrated in May, that he needed an enormous amount of saline at home?

You think that same man would have put himself on the line like Ray did against a peak Tommy Hearns at WW?

You really think that's realistic?

How are you going to ignore all of the above?

Are those the actions of a guy who'd have fought Tommy Hearns?

It just makes me laugh.

I'll just repeat what I said before:

And that's the difference between us when discussing how PBF would respond: my 'opinion' is based on in-ring observable actions under similar situations over the course of a 20 year career, and your 'opinion' ignores all that and appears to be driven by emotions due to feeling some kind of way based on alleged out-of-ring stuff.

But hey, you're entitled to your opinion too.