Comments Thread For: Loeffler: We Expect Canelo To Defend Against Golovkin

[aboutfkntime]

Presumably you're aware, through your idiotic slurs, that Canelo wants a CW of Caneloweight. Multiple links that they want a 90-10 on this very site: /de-la-hoya-if-ggg-fight-now-canelo-gets-90-10-split--100312

Surprised you didn't know that, it was really big news and even more confirmation that Canelo is not serious about fighting GGG, especially as he's using Khan as his voluntary defence.

I don't think GGG ran from Cotto - he knew whoever was the victor of Canelo v Cotto would be a bigger fight with that win on their resume. He stepped aside, and is probably going to get screwed over - look at the people who have avoided GGG: Sturm, Martinez, Quillin, Saunders, Canelo now, even Froch retired two days after GGG made an offer to him. I'm pretty sure Johnson faked the injury to duck too, and Lara only called out GGG after he confirmed he would be fighting his mandatory, no time at all before when GGG was looking for a good fight.

Sadly, boxing fans can't just enjoy the fights, they also have to discuss business strategy. GGG would be best of fighting Canelo, but if that doesn't happen because of CW drama (157 or less is unacceptable), or money, GGG should force Canelo to vacate. People will see that as Canelo ducking. GGG should then fight Saunders, to be undisputed champ. If he hasn't fought Canelo, Canelo will be forced to fight GGG for a belt if he moves up - which he'll have to within 2 years. Power and technique are the last two things to go, and with the current MWs around, I can't see any of them beating GGG at 160 for the next 5 years at least.

That was Hoya talking **** to the press, not negotiating with Golovkin.

Who said 157 or less is unacceptable ?

[Xoahr]

That was Hoya talking **** to the press, not negotiating with Golovkin.

Who said 157 or less is unacceptable ?

Talking **** to the press is negotiation. It provides a basis for discussion when they actually negotiate, and acts as a way to get into the negotiating parties heads. It's also any Sanchez and Loeffler are insistent a 155 CW and they force Canelo to vacate - they're setting out expectations.

That's just my opinion. I completely disagree with CWs, especially when Canelo comes into fights heavier than GGG anyway. On the other hand, I'd love to see the fight, and if the CW was 158 I don't think that would drain GGG too much. 155 - 157 is too much for a 33 year old to cut, he'd lose too much stamina. It's just a clear attempt by Canelos team to make a less competitive fight, because they're scared of a loss.

It's ironic - Canelo wants to be like the olden day fighters, finish with 100 fights on his stars. But fighters back then didn't care so much about losing; they were more willing to prove themselves against the best, even if it meant losing.

[aboutfkntime]

Talking **** to the press is negotiation. It provides a basis for discussion when they actually negotiate, and acts as a way to get into the negotiating parties heads. It's also any Sanchez and Loeffler are insistent a 155 CW and they force Canelo to vacate - they're setting out expectations.

That's just my opinion. I completely disagree with CWs, especially when Canelo comes into fights heavier than GGG anyway. On the other hand, I'd love to see the fight, and if the CW was 158 I don't think that would drain GGG too much. 155 - 157 is too much for a 33 year old to cut, he'd lose too much stamina. It's just a clear attempt by Canelos team to make a less competitive fight, because they're scared of a loss.

It's ironic - Canelo wants to be like the olden day fighters, finish with 100 fights on his stars. But fighters back then didn't care so much about losing; they were more willing to prove themselves against the best, even if it meant losing.

IT FKN IS NOT !!

And, your opinion on the weight is irrelevant.

The official story is, that Golovkin can beat everyone at 154.....

http://www.boxingscene.com/sanchez-nobody-154-160-lasts-twelve-with-golovkin--97123

Good luck thinking that Canelo would listen to your opinion.

[Xoahr]

IT FKN IS NOT !!

And, your opinion on the weight is irrelevant.

The official story is, that Golovkin can beat everyone at 154.....
sanchez-nobody-154-160-lasts-twelve-with-golovkin--97123

Good luck thinking that Canelo would listen to your opinion.

But I can just use your logic against you - this is just Sanchez, chatting **** to the press about his fighter. How is it any different to Hoya saying "we want a 90-10 split, at 155"?

You can't have it both ways, saying "the media is not a stage of negotiation" and that Hoya is just gobbing off, then immediately say, and quote, Sanchez talking to the media about how great his fighter is.

Your argument is completely illogical, because you've just contradicted your own terms almost immediately. Do we take representatives talking to the media seriously, or do we not? You can't say, "in Canelo's case it's not serious" and then say "but in Golovkin's case, it's completely serious". That's just being blinded by your own emotions and biases, displaying the sort of logic a child or idiot would employ. Are you a child, an idiot, or a troll?

You're welcome to believe that the media isn't a stage to begin negotiations, but how often have you seen one boxer/promoter/agent say one thing on the media (ie, X is a paper champion, our boxer could take on X at LHW and win easily, with an arm behind his back) only for the opponent to use the media to fight back (ie, Y hasn't got any serious wins. If he beats a top 10 LHW, we'll consider fighting him). In fact, didn't this happen with Chad Dawson who boasted to the media that he could take on Ward at 168, only for Ward's team to use that boast, which had been disseminated by the media, to force him to fight at 168? How much of a casual are you? This exact scenario is occurring here - Canelo's team and GGG's team are staking their positions, using the media, so when they negotiate in person, they both know where to begin. Canelo's team are lowballing GGG, GGG are stating they don't care about the financials, but about the CW, etc. That's why I personally think they'll come to a compromise, because they want different things (Canelo's team is focussed on the finances, GGG's team is focussed on the CW).

My opinion may be irrelevant, and I doubt anybody noteworthy would be interested in it at all, but that doesn't mean I can't share it and criticise people if - in my opinion - they're acting like a diva.

[bug0092]

But I can just use your logic against you - this is just Sanchez, chatting **** to the press about his fighter. How is it any different to Hoya saying "we want a 90-10 split, at 155"?

You can't have it both ways, saying "the media is not a stage of negotiation" and that Hoya is just gobbing off, then immediately say, and quote, Sanchez talking to the media about how great his fighter is.

Your argument is completely illogical, because you've just contradicted your own terms almost immediately. Do we take representatives talking to the media seriously, or do we not? You can't say, "in Canelo's case it's not serious" and then say "but in Golovkin's case, it's completely serious". That's just being blinded by your own emotions and biases, displaying the sort of logic a child or idiot would employ. Are you a child, an idiot, or a troll?

You're welcome to believe that the media isn't a stage to begin negotiations, but how often have you seen one boxer/promoter/agent say one thing on the media (ie, X is a paper champion, our boxer could take on X at LHW and win easily, with an arm behind his back) only for the opponent to use the media to fight back (ie, Y hasn't got any serious wins. If he beats a top 10 LHW, we'll consider fighting him). In fact, didn't this happen with Chad Dawson who boasted to the media that he could take on Ward at 168, only for Ward's team to use that boast, which had been disseminated by the media, to force him to fight at 168? How much of a casual are you? This exact scenario is occurring here - Canelo's team and GGG's team are staking their positions, using the media, so when they negotiate in person, they both know where to begin. Canelo's team are lowballing GGG, GGG are stating they don't care about the financials, but about the CW, etc. That's why I personally think they'll come to a compromise, because they want different things (Canelo's team is focussed on the finances, GGG's team is focussed on the CW).

My opinion may be irrelevant, and I doubt anybody noteworthy would be interested in it at all, but that doesn't mean I can't share it and criticise people if - in my opinion - they're acting like a diva.

Exactly. This is simply pre-negotiation posturing which is all really a part of the negotiation process. GGG already knows how low they're willing to go if they want the PPV $$$. And, if it turns out they just want the WBC belt for now, they'll strip him and wait until he feels ready. Canelo's going to have to face GGG at some point. But for some "critics," logic doesn't apply when it comes to how Golovkin conducts his business. They want GGG to concede everything to Canelo even before getting to the table. Usually, they're the same folks who were dumping on him for rejecting the lousy contract offer Ward had sent after the GGG train had already left the station.

[aboutfkntime]

But I can just use your logic against you - this is just Sanchez, chatting **** to the press about his fighter. How is it any different to Hoya saying "we want a 90-10 split, at 155"?

You can't have it both ways, saying "the media is not a stage of negotiation" and that Hoya is just gobbing off, then immediately say, and quote, Sanchez talking to the media about how great his fighter is.

Your argument is completely illogical, because you've just contradicted your own terms almost immediately. Do we take representatives talking to the media seriously, or do we not? You can't say, "in Canelo's case it's not serious" and then say "but in Golovkin's case, it's completely serious". That's just being blinded by your own emotions and biases, displaying the sort of logic a child or idiot would employ. Are you a child, an idiot, or a troll?

You're welcome to believe that the media isn't a stage to begin negotiations, but how often have you seen one boxer/promoter/agent say one thing on the media (ie, X is a paper champion, our boxer could take on X at LHW and win easily, with an arm behind his back) only for the opponent to use the media to fight back (ie, Y hasn't got any serious wins. If he beats a top 10 LHW, we'll consider fighting him). In fact, didn't this happen with Chad Dawson who boasted to the media that he could take on Ward at 168, only for Ward's team to use that boast, which had been disseminated by the media, to force him to fight at 168? How much of a casual are you? This exact scenario is occurring here - Canelo's team and GGG's team are staking their positions, using the media, so when they negotiate in person, they both know where to begin. Canelo's team are lowballing GGG, GGG are stating they don't care about the financials, but about the CW, etc. That's why I personally think they'll come to a compromise, because they want different things (Canelo's team is focussed on the finances, GGG's team is focussed on the CW).

My opinion may be irrelevant, and I doubt anybody noteworthy would be interested in it at all, but that doesn't mean I can't share it and criticise people if - in my opinion - they're acting like a diva.

Exactly. This is simply pre-negotiation posturing which is all really a part of the negotiation process. GGG already knows how low they're willing to go if they want the PPV $$$. And, if it turns out they just want the WBC belt for now, they'll strip him and wait until he feels ready. Canelo's going to have to face GGG at some point. But for some "critics," logic doesn't apply when it comes to how Golovkin conducts his business. They want GGG to concede everything to Canelo even before getting to the table. Usually, they're the same folks who were dumping on him for rejecting the lousy contract offer Ward had sent after the GGG train had already left the station.

Team Hypekin FLATLY REFUSED to negotiate with Canelo, which led to the WBC deciding to defer Canelo's mandatory.

That was NOT pre-negotiation posturing dude.

Oh, by the way..... they also flatly refused to negotiate with Cotto.

Despite stating that they can beat everyone at 154, Team Golovkin flatly refused to negotiate with the HUGE PAYDAY that is Miguel Cotto.

Forget pre-negotiation posturing, they will not negotiate, period.

Oh, and they flatly refused to negotiate with Khan as well.

So, the word that you were looking for is...... " lie ".

[bug0092]

Team Hypekin FLATLY REFUSED to negotiate with Canelo, which led to the WBC deciding to defer Canelo's mandatory.

That was NOT pre-negotiation posturing dude.

Oh, by the way..... they also flatly refused to negotiate with Cotto.

Despite stating that they can beat everyone at 154, Team Golovkin flatly refused to negotiate with the HUGE PAYDAY that is Miguel Cotto.

Forget pre-negotiation posturing, they will not negotiate, period.

Oh, and they flatly refused to negotiate with Khan as well.

So, the word that you were looking for is...... " lie ".

You have just as much knowledge about the negotiations that have taken place behind closed doors with Cotto and Canelo as I do....which is ABSOLUTELY NONE.

Your assumption that Cotto was even open to a negotiation speaks for itself. He was allowed to fight Canelo because a Canelo fight is an actual possibility. It’s pretty likely K2 was hoping for a Canelo win. They got what they wanted and Canelo asked for a voluntary. GGG’s okay with that because he has an IBF mando and a WBO belt to chase in the meantime. Nothing lost there. They can always strip Canelo in the fall or settle on a catchweight GGG feels comfortable at for the PPV $$$. It will be their choice and if you don’t think they’ve thought about all the possibilities, you’re the definition of dense.

See, the difference between you and me is that I'll trust that GGG's team have been around the block a few times in the fight game and know perfectly well what they are doing. Or at least they’ll do what’s in the best interest of their fighter leading up to and during negotiations. You on the other hand seem to think GGG's best tactic would have been to forget about his leverage as a mandatory and cave immediately to Cotto or Canelo's terms.

GGG will likely be training up at Big Bear soon. You should get a bus ticket and a video camera and go confront him yourself if you really want an answer. Maybe you could run your ideas by the folks at K2 and get yourself a spot at the bargaining table negotiating terms for GGG's upcoming fights..."just name the weight, the split, the date, and the place and we'll sign!"

[aboutfkntime]

You have just as much knowledge about the negotiations that have taken place behind closed doors with Cotto and Canelo as I do....which is ABSOLUTELY NONE.

Your assumption that Cotto was even open to a negotiation speaks for itself. He was allowed to fight Canelo because a Canelo fight is an actual possibility. It’s pretty likely K2 was hoping for a Canelo win. They got what they wanted and Canelo asked for a voluntary. GGG’s okay with that because he has an IBF mando and a WBO belt to chase in the meantime. Nothing lost there. They can always strip Canelo in the fall or settle on a catchweight GGG feels comfortable at for the PPV $$$. It will be their choice and if you don’t think they’ve thought about all the possibilities, you’re the definition of dense.

See, the difference between you and me is that I'll trust that GGG's team have been around the block a few times in the fight game and know perfectly well what they are doing. Or at least they’ll do what’s in the best interest of their fighter leading up to and during negotiations. You on the other hand seem to think GGG's best tactic would have been to forget about his leverage as a mandatory and cave immediately to Cotto or Canelo's terms.

GGG will likely be training up at Big Bear soon. You should get a bus ticket and a video camera and go confront him yourself if you really want an answer. Maybe you could run your ideas by the folks at K2 and get yourself a spot at the bargaining table negotiating terms for GGG's upcoming fights..."just name the weight, the split, the date, and the place and we'll sign!"

Canelo publicly stated a dozen times that he will only fight at 155.

And in reply.....

Golovkin publicly stated a dozen times that he will only fight at 160.

It's not rocket science, genius.

[bug0092]

Canelo publicly stated a dozen times that he will only fight at 155.

And in reply.....

Golovkin publicly stated a dozen times that he will only fight at 160.

It's not rocket science, genius.

Looks like according to you there's be no possibility of Canelo/GGG. Care to guess then why GGG said okay to an interim bout before a unification bout that in your mind can't possibly happen? I've got an open mind on this. Tell me what's going on...

[aboutfkntime]

Looks like according to you there's be no possibility of Canelo/GGG. Care to guess then why GGG said okay to an interim bout before a unification bout that in your mind can't possibly happen? I've got an open mind on this. Tell me what's going on...

No idea ?

Because, Canelo is still demanding 155, and Golovkin is still insisting on 160.

And, Canelo did not select Khan to prepare him for 160