Debunking the PBC fighters can't fight on HBO Theory Myth and GGG's HBO contract

[HeroBando]

So what were the new contract agreements after Monroe Jr?

Unless you can find a definitive contract, the people have no choice but to go on what was put out which was GGG had a contractual agreement of a minimum of 4 fights in which he's already met his obligations for.





I remember reading his contract ran out before but I fail to see your point here.

Maybe dumb people would think that, that HBO wouldn't lock in one of their main guys before unexpectedly featuring him on Ppv.

The point with Stevens is obviously that once a contract ends, a new one is signed for a guy of Gggs appeal. Anyway see this article, says Ggg is under exclusive contract. Most would get there using common sense

http://www.boxingscene.com/golovkin-wade-30-days-unfamilar-bedfellows-agree--100777

[original zero]

Scott -

We have no idea how much money Haymon has burned through, but there is no reason to believe there have been large unanticipated costs. "PBC has burned through half their money" is typical anti-Haymon propaganda with no basis in fact.

When Microsoft decided to get into the video game business, they knew in advance they would have to lose BILLIONS of dollars to attempt to grab market share. Similar strategies are far more common than you seem to realize.

Haymon's management company is not going to go out of business. If he needs another injection someday and doesn't get it, he's still raking in management fees like you pointed out.

Wilder's last fight and Jacobs-Quillin were *not* PBC events. They were on Showtime. There is no doubt that Showtime's numbers have decreased in the PBC era. That's part of what makes all of this so interesting. If PBC succeeds, it not only makes HBO irrelevant, but also makes Showtime irrelevant, yet in the meantime, Showtime & Al still need each other. It's fascinating to follow IMO.



DJT -

We couldn't disagree more on the role live sports will play in HBO's future. You believe they'll become more important to HBO, I believe they'll be minimized or eliminated by HBO.

You raise many great points about the "freshness" of live sports, but that is precisely why they won't fit into HBO's future.

Every dollar HBO spends on an original series pays dividends FOR LIFE in HBO's growing archive on HBO NOW and HBO GO. Meanwhile, every dollar spent on a fight is a dollar flushed down the toilet in terms of the longterm value added to the HBO services.

Right now, with TV being HBO's primary method of distribution, fights are a small but important component to gaining subscribers. But the more important HBO NOW & HBO GO become, the less important boxing becomes to HBO.

HBO's real fight is going to be with Netflix. Eventually fighting with Al Haymon is going to be a waste of their time. HBO's resources will be better spent elsewhere.

Look, I don't think anybody is scared to fight anybody. Haymon overpays his top guys to make sure he's got them locked up and HBO overpays their top guys to make sure they've got them locked up. The tactics Al is using to choke HBO, those are the same tactics HBO has used to try to choke everyone else for decades.

Fans are fans. They just want to see fights. Most of them aren't savvy enough to understand the politics, especially when the HBO propaganda machine is in full force at all times and Haymon doesn't speak to the media. So most fans get one side of the story and take it as the gospel. Same thing with many reporters.

Are there some Haymon fanboys? Sure. But I see far more insisting Stevenson ducked Kovalev, even though Kovalev is the one that backed out of the purse bid.

So it would be nice to see the narrative here at least be a little closer to reality.

[djt117]

Scott -

We have no idea how much money Haymon has burned through, but there is no reason to believe there have been large unanticipated costs. "PBC has burned through half their money" is typical anti-Haymon propaganda with no basis in fact.

When Microsoft decided to get into the video game business, they knew in advance they would have to lose BILLIONS of dollars to attempt to grab market share. Similar strategies are far more common than you seem to realize.

Haymon's management company is not going to go out of business. If he needs another injection someday and doesn't get it, he's still raking in management fees like you pointed out.

Wilder's last fight and Jacobs-Quillin were *not* PBC events. They were on Showtime. There is no doubt that Showtime's numbers have decreased in the PBC era. That's part of what makes all of this so interesting. If PBC succeeds, it not only makes HBO irrelevant, but also makes Showtime irrelevant, yet in the meantime, Showtime & Al still need each other. It's fascinating to follow IMO.



DJT -

We couldn't disagree more on the role live sports will play in HBO's future. You believe they'll become more important to HBO, I believe they'll be minimized or eliminated by HBO.

You raise many great points about the "freshness" of live sports, but that is precisely why they won't fit into HBO's future.

Every dollar HBO spends on an original series pays dividends FOR LIFE in HBO's growing archive on HBO NOW and HBO GO. Meanwhile, every dollar spent on a fight is a dollar flushed down the toilet in terms of the longterm value added to the HBO services.

Right now, with TV being HBO's primary method of distribution, fights are a small but important component to gaining subscribers. But the more important HBO NOW & HBO GO become, the less important boxing becomes to HBO.

HBO's real fight is going to be with Netflix. Eventually fighting with Al Haymon is going to be a waste of their time. HBO's resources will be better spent elsewhere.

Look, I don't think anybody is scared to fight anybody. Haymon overpays his top guys to make sure he's got them locked up and HBO overpays their top guys to make sure they've got them locked up. The tactics Al is using to choke HBO, those are the same tactics HBO has used to try to choke everyone else for decades.

Fans are fans. They just want to see fights. Most of them aren't savvy enough to understand the politics, especially when the HBO propaganda machine is in full force at all times and Haymon doesn't speak to the media. So most fans get one side of the story and take it as the gospel. Same thing with many reporters.

Are there some Haymon fanboys? Sure. But I see far more insisting Stevenson ducked Kovalev, even though Kovalev is the one that backed out of the purse bid.

So it would be nice to see the narrative here at least be a little closer to reality.

Without delving too much into all your other points (all of which are well thought out even if I don't agree with every one of them), I will just say this:

You can't maintain a policy of not speaking to the media and then claim unfair treatment by the media LOL.

There's not a marketing executive, communications professor, or promient businessperson on Earth who would say, "yeah man -- eschew the opportunity for free publicity and the opportunity to share your company's vision with the would-be consumers of your product".

Some people will say "oh it's brilliant" simply because it's so different and they'll make up some-sort of logic-challenged reasons why it's smart.

Well it's not smart lol. It's actually ****ing ****** as hell. If fans feel like the "product manufacturer" doesn't give a **** about their opinions when creating the product, they'll never develop any loyalty to the brand.

[HeroBando]

Scott -

We have no idea how much money Haymon has burned through, but there is no reason to believe there have been large unanticipated costs. "PBC has burned through half their money" is typical anti-Haymon propaganda with no basis in fact.

When Microsoft decided to get into the video game business, they knew in advance they would have to lose BILLIONS of dollars to attempt to grab market share. Similar strategies are far more common than you seem to realize.

Haymon's management company is not going to go out of business. If he needs another injection someday and doesn't get it, he's still raking in management fees like you pointed out.

Wilder's last fight and Jacobs-Quillin were *not* PBC events. They were on Showtime. There is no doubt that Showtime's numbers have decreased in the PBC era. That's part of what makes all of this so interesting. If PBC succeeds, it not only makes HBO irrelevant, but also makes Showtime irrelevant, yet in the meantime, Showtime & Al still need each other. It's fascinating to follow IMO.



DJT -

We couldn't disagree more on the role live sports will play in HBO's future. You believe they'll become more important to HBO, I believe they'll be minimized or eliminated by HBO.

You raise many great points about the "freshness" of live sports, but that is precisely why they won't fit into HBO's future.

Every dollar HBO spends on an original series pays dividends FOR LIFE in HBO's growing archive on HBO NOW and HBO GO. Meanwhile, every dollar spent on a fight is a dollar flushed down the toilet in terms of the longterm value added to the HBO services.

Right now, with TV being HBO's primary method of distribution, fights are a small but important component to gaining subscribers. But the more important HBO NOW & HBO GO become, the less important boxing becomes to HBO.

HBO's real fight is going to be with Netflix. Eventually fighting with Al Haymon is going to be a waste of their time. HBO's resources will be better spent elsewhere.

Look, I don't think anybody is scared to fight anybody. Haymon overpays his top guys to make sure he's got them locked up and HBO overpays their top guys to make sure they've got them locked up. The tactics Al is using to choke HBO, those are the same tactics HBO has used to try to choke everyone else for decades.

Fans are fans. They just want to see fights. Most of them aren't savvy enough to understand the politics, especially when the HBO propaganda machine is in full force at all times and Haymon doesn't speak to the media. So most fans get one side of the story and take it as the gospel. Same thing with many reporters.

Are there some Haymon fanboys? Sure. But I see far more insisting Stevenson ducked Kovalev, even though Kovalev is the one that backed out of the purse bid.

So it would be nice to see the narrative here at least be a little closer to reality.

But it'd suck a lot if this PBC thing folds, and in the process takes down Showtime and reduces HBOs commitment to the sport. Seems risky, for boxing fans

[original zero]

DTJ -

As far as we know, Al isn't crying about unfair treatment. I'm sure he's aware of the downsides of his stance and he must think the positives outweigh the negatives.

But I bring it up because I see so many here get snookered by the HBO propaganda machine and it's worth noting WHY the HBO narrative is so quickly accepted as fact: the other side doesn't say anything.

I don't know if it's brilliant or not, but this is the way Al acted in the music biz and he was very successful. So he must find that there is an upside. Would he have accumulated all of the power that he has if he was a sucker for the camera? Probably not. Part of why he's been able to do what he's done is because by the time anybody figured out what he was doing, it was too late to stop him.

[bigjavi973]

I don't think HBO fears that Golovkin is going to lose to anyone at 160

If there is any reticence, it could be over something strange. Example, Golovkin suffers a freak cut (caused by a punch) early in a fight that Golovkin is bossing and an over-zealous doctor stops it.

Then Haymon plays keep-away or tries to rake Golovkin over the coals in order for Golovkin to get a rematch to avenge the loss (i.e., asking for options on his next 3 fights or some other ridiculous ****).

Plus all of this presumes that Haymon is eager to sacrifice good fighters in his stable to Golovkin. Why the hell would he do that? He has zero incentive to help a rival promoter's fighter become an even bigger star. Just because--for example--Jacobs or Lara say they want the GGG fight (and let's take them at their word)--that doesn't mean Haymon wants it.

If die-hard Golovkin haters were smart (which in my experience, they're not, generally) they'd adopt Demetrius Andrade as their mascot and go-to stick with which to beat Golovkin. There's a guy who IS NOT behind the opposite side of the Wall in boxing's Cold War, who presents a dangerous stylistic matchup for Golovkin (however I don't know what his situation is with his current promoter(s) and whether or not he is actively fighting again). Also part of that is on Andrade because if I were him I'd be calling out Golovkin every single day and fighting as frequently as possible (seems like he's doing neither).

just shut the hell up & talk unbiased.

[djt117]

just shut the hell up & talk unbiased.

Wtf? If Golovkin fought a Haymon fighter and lost on some freak happenstance (like suffering a deep cut on his eyelid in a fight he was dominating), Haymon would exact a steep price if Golovkin wanted the rematch (such as requesting options and the like). And so would Arum. So would Eddie Hearn. So would any promoter. That's how the game is played. Calm down buddy I'm not hating on your beloved savior of boxing

I was merely trying to explain the risks and institutional politics and such that make cooperation between PBC and rival promoters difficult. Now go turn on a promo vid for Al's next big PBC card and have a nice wank for yourself lol

[bigjavi973]

Wtf? If Golovkin fought a Haymon fighter and lost on some freak happenstance (like suffering a deep cut on his eyelid in a fight he was dominating), Haymon would exact a steep price if Golovkin wanted the rematch (such as requesting options and the like). And so would Arum. So would Eddie Hearn. So would any promoter. That's how the game is played. Calm down buddy I'm not hating on your beloved savior of boxing

I was merely trying to explain the risks and institutional politics and such that make cooperation between PBC and rival promoters difficult. Now go turn on a promo vid for Al's next big PBC card and have a nice wank for yourself lol

I have no savior of boxing & I understand the politics in boxing. A cut wont hurt his stock... a loss would especially when they hyped him up as much as they have. So since you're speculating, I'll speculate that it's the main reason why certain fights haven't been made. Since we're speculating here.

[Chollo Vista]

Maybe dumb people would think that, that HBO wouldn't lock in one of their main guys before unexpectedly featuring him on Ppv.

Forgive me for thinking outside the status quo of "GGG can't find fights. He's to good to fight guys A, B and C anyways" train of thought.

What are the HBO details on his contract specifically? Does he have one fight left, two fights left, what?

Other than what I provided, do you even know?

[HeroBando]

Forgive me for thinking outside the status quo of "GGG can't find fights. He's to good to fight guys A, B and C anyways" train of thought.

What are the HBO details on his contract specifically? Does he have one fight left, two fights left, what?

Other than what I provided, do you even know?

I don't, and they're under no obligation to disclose the terms. But as the article states, and as common sense would have it, he's under exclusive contract with HBO. And that won't change for a while