Comments Thread For: Froch: Golovkin's Promoter Ruled Out Fight at 168

[tokon]

Like others have said, boxing has weight categories for a reason: size counts.

Sure, smaller guys can win. But to do so they have to be better in some of the other important areas.

The smaller guy will often try to narrow the gap by negotiating this "catchweight" bull****, hoping that making the bigger guy come down to an unnaturally low weight will weaken him.

That's what Golovkin was trying to with the 164 for Ward.

Ward is the bigger, stronger guy. He is technically and tactically AT LEAST the equal of Golovkin. At 168 the odds are very much in favour of a Ward win imo.

[aboutfkntime]

I never said he did, pay attention. You said give me links to people who have said such things, I did and now it has to be top level guys. Well if you're going to keep moving the goal post then so be it. I figured such a response. You can go on with whatever you said and that's fine. All I ever said is that this fight would be a lot more competitive than you and others like you would think. I have noted how I'm aware of how many pick Ward to win so you have also "waste a little bit of your life by explaining that to me." But as far as those who have been in the ring, this is what they've said, that's all. Shame the fight hasn't happened/might not happen.

LOL wut ?

I said NO fighters/trainers pick Golovkin over Ward, and you provided a Mendez link.

Listen..... it's not about moving the goalpost, it is about understanding the boxing landscape and understanding how styles/levels match up.

There is a VERY GOOD REASON why every top fighter/trainer BAR NONE states that Ward > Golovkin..... that's all I'm saying man.

I - like them - give Golovkin little/no chance to beat Ward..... and I FULLY understand why Team Golovkin avoided that fight..... I just don't understand why Golovkins "fans" can't keep it real.

[aboutfkntime]

I never said he did, pay attention. You said give me links to people who have said such things, I did and now it has to be top level guys. Well if you're going to keep moving the goal post then so be it. I figured such a response. You can go on with whatever you said and that's fine. All I ever said is that this fight would be a lot more competitive than you and others like you would think. I have noted how I'm aware of how many pick Ward to win so you have also "waste a little bit of your life by explaining that to me." But as far as those who have been in the ring, this is what they've said, that's all. Shame the fight hasn't happened/might not happen.

this was the point.....

Those guys obviously understand the game on a much deeper level than the rock-em-sock-em robot casual-fans...... they are ALL coming to the same conclusion, for the same reason, they understand about styles/levels.

[aboutfkntime]

Like others have said, boxing has weight categories for a reason: size counts.

Sure, smaller guys can win. But to do so they have to be better in some of the other important areas.

The smaller guy will often try to narrow the gap by negotiating this "catchweight" bull****, hoping that making the bigger guy come down to an unnaturally low weight will weaken him.

That's what Golovkin was trying to with the 164 for Ward.

Ward is the bigger, stronger guy. He is technically and tactically AT LEAST the equal of Golovkin. At 168 the odds are very much in favour of a Ward win imo.

I think he is better in every department except P4P-power.

And in most departments Ward is considerably better.

[tokon]

I think he is better in every department except P4P-power.

And in most departments Ward is considerably better.

I wrote "AT LEAST" as I wasn't looking to get into those aspects.

I was just making the point that, other factors being equal, size is a major factor which, as the bigger/stronger fighter, favours Ward. Especially as he is exceptionally good making his size and strength count.

[Nights King]

Nah, people who use the term " technically " are usually reaching badly.

What middleweight weighs 155..... name one ?

Come on man get real...... EVERYONE knows that Canelo will be a much better fighter given FULL camps that are specifically designed to prepare him for 160.

You know it, I know it..... and Team Golovkin most certainly fkn know it.





You have completely missed the point.

Canelo has been chasing a Cotto fight for YEARS, since long before Cotto accidentally picked up the middleweight strap by beating Martinez in a money fight.

" I have absolutely NO interest in middleweight "
~ Saul " Canelo " Alvarez

Golovkin stated for YEARS that he could beat " anyone from 154-168 ".

And he was prepared to fight Froch/Chavez at 168..... just not Ward.

Why is that do you think ?





Thats the reason why..... right there ^^

Thats fine Canelo should settle into 160 however there is no reason for him not to fight at that exact weight now that he has a title.

I acknowledge Canelo stalking Cotto and the setback was the Trout fight. That doesn't dispute the fact he has been fighting at 155 aka I'm not ready to be a middleweight/My minds telling me no but my body is telling me yeah.

Why chase Jr/Froch?

His management are in pursuit of the best reward. More importantly it would be a way for Golovkin to test himself at 168 before fighting a legit top #3 P4P fighter in Ward. However I'll keep it real when GGGs team pulled out the 164 **** they're clearly not ready for Ward.

He said he'll fight anyone from 154-168 and that was years ago. Priorities change and shift depending on the position you're in.

Just like Canelos stance as a champion probably has.

[aboutfkntime]

Thats fine Canelo should settle into 160 however there is no reason for him not to fight at that exact weight now that he has a title.

I acknowledge Canelo stalking Cotto and the setback was the Trout fight. That doesn't dispute the fact he has been fighting at 155 aka I'm not ready to be a middleweight/My minds telling me no but my body is telling me yeah.

Why chase Jr/Froch?

His management are in pursuit of the best reward. More importantly it would be a way for Golovkin to test himself at 168 before fighting a legit top #3 P4P fighter in Ward. However I'll keep it real when GGGs team pulled out the 164 **** they're clearly not ready for Ward.

He said he'll fight anyone from 154-168 and that was years ago. Priorities change and shift depending on the position you're in.

Just like Canelos stance as a champion probably has.

I agree with the bold.

But that whole " we don't need to hold Golovkin to his word " thing.....

..... that's just bull****.

They said this about 3 weeks ago..... " GGG can beat anyone at 154 ".

So yea, walking away from a Canelo fight by refusing to agree to a catchwight, after saying that you can beat anyone at 154 AND demanding a catchweight from Ward..... is taking the easy way out.

That is not what I expect from a supposed killer.

No Ward..... inexplicably, no Lara either..... and now we also got weak excuses why Golovkin cannot fight Canelo/Cotto ?

The only common-denominator with those 4 opponents is that they are all world-class.

It seems that Golovkin has no problem making fights with guys who are clearly NOT world-class, but he doesnt want anything to do with the real ones.

It sounds like there may be some truth to the fact that insiders are starting to suggest there may be a lot of unwarranted hype around Golovkin.

[Nights King]

I agree with the bold.

But that whole " we don't need to hold Golovkin to his word " thing.....

..... that's just bull****.

They said this about 3 weeks ago..... " GGG can beat anyone at 154 ".

So yea, walking away from a Canelo fight by refusing to agree to a catchwight, after saying that you can beat anyone at 154 AND demanding a catchweight from Ward..... is taking the easy way out.

That is not what I expect from a supposed killer.

No Ward..... inexplicably, no Lara either..... and now we also got weak excuses why Golovkin cannot fight Canelo/Cotto ?

The only common-denominator with those 4 opponents is that they are all world-class.

It seems that Golovkin has no problem making fights with guys who are clearly NOT world-class, but he doesnt want anything to do with the real ones.

It sounds like there may be some truth to the fact that insiders are starting to suggest there may be a lot of unwarranted hype around Golovkin.

Should GGG fight either of them? Yes. Should any of the bouts take place below 160? No. Respectively both fighters should be given the chance to prove that they are capable and ready at 160 so that the talk of being a smaller fighter is not an issue. However i dont understand the hype behind Lara and why Golovkins team would need to avoid him.

Was it an idiotic statement made by GGGs team knowing Golovkin hasn't weighed that light in years? Absolutely.

I don't want to provide an excuse for catchweights because that would mean im holding double standards in regards to Canelo. But i do see why GGGs team issued one with Ward. They likely see it as middle ground in the sense that he (Ward) is that best at SMW and Golovkin has not himself debuted at that particular weight to show that he's ready. I don't go back on my word catchweights are there to provide an advantage or a meeting ground. In this case it was clearly the former with the addition that Ward probably cannot make 168 as efficiently.

In regards to world class fighters there are not many at 160 which evidently is his current goal. And that is the real problem. The choice of moving up rests on a superfight with Canelo/unification. However I see Golovkin staying at MW till the tail end of his career.

Lets hope there will eventually be a bout made which will be a true litmus test.

And I hope GGG calls Canelos bluff of 155 just to see Oscars response.

[aboutfkntime]

Should GGG fight either of them? Yes. Should any of the bouts take place below 160? No. Respectively both fighters should be given the chance to prove that they are capable and ready at 160 so that the talk of being a smaller fighter is not an issue. However i dont understand the hype behind Lara and why Golovkins team would need to avoid him.

Was it an idiotic statement made by GGGs team knowing Golovkin hasn't weighed that light in years? Absolutely.

I don't want to provide an excuse for catchweights because that would mean im holding double standards in regards to Canelo. But i do see why GGGs team issued one with Ward. They likely see it as middle ground in the sense that he (Ward) is that best at SMW and Golovkin has not himself debuted at that particular weight to show that he's ready. I don't go back on my word catchweights are there to provide an advantage or a meeting ground. In this case it was clearly the former with the addition that Ward probably cannot make 168 as efficiently.

In regards to world class fighters there are not many at 160 which evidently is his current goal. And that is the real problem. The choice of moving up rests on a superfight with Canelo/unification. However I see Golovkin staying at MW till the tail end of his career.

Lets hope there will eventually be a bout made which will be a true litmus test.

And I hope GGG calls Canelos bluff of 155 just to see Oscars response.

I find your position too " conveniently " suitable for Golovkin dude.

I'm not gonna get snarky, because you came clean about Ward.

But because of the following 2 facts, Golovkin should at least attempt to negotiate a reasonable catchweight in order to make that fight.....

1) he is a catchweight abuser himself

2) the 3/4 year-long " anyone from 154-168 " schtick.

I do NOT accept your position that Golovkin should not be held to his hollow words...... in fact I don't know how you could even suggest such a thing.

Tell yourself that you haven't been lied to, if that makes you feel any better.

[Nights King]

I find your position too " conveniently " suitable for Golovkin dude.

I'm not gonna get snarky, because you came clean about Ward.

But because of the following 2 facts, Golovkin should at least attempt to negotiate a reasonable catchweight in order to make that fight.....

1) he is a catchweight abuser himself

2) the 3/4 year-long " anyone from 154-168 " schtick.

I do NOT accept your position that Golovkin should not be held to his hollow words...... in fact I don't know how you could even suggest such a thing.

Tell yourself that you haven't been lied to, if that makes you feel any better.

If we are to believe GGG would fight 'anyone' from 154-168 in his current state we are also to believe Andre Ward will fight at HW, Naseem Hamed will come out of retirement and Amir Khan will fight Kell Brook.

'Anyone' changed in recent years due to marketing strategies and risk managment on Golovkins team. They mention:
154 - Floyd
164 - Ward
168 - Chavez/Froch The reasons do not need to be stated because it's pretty damn obvious.

My stance appears to be favoring Golovkin? Maybe I should have an Avi of Ward and then speak.

I tried to provide a balance to your own points in regards to Canelo not being ready for MW and why a catchweight on two differents ends should not be enforced. I also explained what criterias could force GGG to move up and could have lead to a bout with Andre Ward and why his team needed a catchweight to make it work.

To call GGG a catchweight abuser is funny considering he hasn't exactly fought at a catchweight other than request one against Andre Ward who himself had one on Paul Smith and fought a drained Chad Dawson. More importantly 2 of the 4 fighters you mentioned seemingly used catchweights, one of which used 155 consistently because he is in denial that he is not a LMW and strangely enough it was after fighting at another catchweight against the P4P best in which he claimed he was "born ready" and looked like a novice. The other because he is too damn small to be one so draining is an option to reduce his opponent to an "even playing field".
And its no more different than GGG tried to with Ward.

What I mean to say is I despise the usage of catchweights whether it be GGG or anyone else.....

I'm not the one believing Saul Alvarez claim he has no interest in MW when he has technically fought 4 times at MW.

I guess the lies I've been fed taste better than yours....