Who is the closest fighter ever to being perfect?

[JStill Unbiased]

floyd looks awkward and unbalanced when he throws combinations. he's very accurate with one or two shots, but leonard absolutely blows him away when you're not only counting pot shots.


again, defending and countering. when you take into account that leonard had to counter much better offensive fighters, even that becomes closer.

Listen I hear your argument, and I agree that when you take into consideration who Leanord was doing it against it raises the bar. But then the conversation changes from most complete to best opponents and SRL blows most out of the water. Respectfully I disagree, Floyd at 130 was not one dimensional, I'm sorry. SRL had that dog in him, the intagible to FINISH opponents and Floyd at 147 didn't even have 2% of that will. But all things considered, both guys at their best weight, it's a legitmate debate of who's more complete. I side with Floyd because of his best weapon, his mind; which I beleive is unmatched in our sport's history.

[b00g13man]

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read on here and that's saying a lot.

It really is. I can't be bothered to converse with someone who holds that "opinion".

[Syf]

there's no way you can call what he did "walking a man down." you're usually a solid poster, iirc. just watch the fight when you get the time. i watched quite a few rounds today myself when ihad the chance. he did not walk canelo down. that is crazy talk.

Heh... I just think it's a very inaccurate term, overall. Different fighters initiate in different ways, with different levels of power and intensity.

Aside from keeping initiative.. "shutting down" is a more accurate definition of what Floyd does when he walks within an opponent's range.

is that really where these kids get the terminology? i was wondering where it came form


god bless roger mayweather. he was a heck of a trainer at his peak, and he gave a lot to the sport as a fighter. solid career, very good puncher and solid skills. at this point he is senile.

Yes I think it has something to do with why It is so often referenced...

It's a term used in gyms, at least the few I've been to. Roger didn't originate it. You see Mike Stafford and others use that term as well.

Not to say others haven't said it.. but Floyd's version of walking down.. walking to within range within his defensive shell...prepared to counter or shoot a jab to the body or a quick right hand lead... is not how other more offensive oriented fighters walk down. Floyd is aiming primarily to sting and befuddle..others are aiming to hurt and dismantle.

And Mike Stafford is not a good example seeing as his fighter, despite trying to copy Floyd, has a more offensive style, whilst being defensively porous. Of necessity, his walking down is going to be more brute force oriented. This is why he was so much more formidable when he had size advantage on guys. His flaws could remain hidden to the untrained eye, as such.

Broner can't shut down a laptop, let alone a capable opponent his own size.

[leeayon]

finito ****ing lopez

[-PBP-]

Not to say others haven't said it.. but Floyd's version of walking down.. walking to within range within his defensive shell...prepared to counter or shoot a jab to the body or a quick right hand lead... is not how other more offensive oriented fighters walk down. Floyd is aiming primarily to sting and befuddle..others are aiming to hurt and dismantle.

And Mike Stafford is not a good example seeing as his fighter, despite trying to copy Floyd, has a more offensive style, whilst being defensively porous. Of necessity, his walking down is going to be more brute force oriented. This is why he was so much more formidable when he had size advantage on guys. His flaws could remain hidden to the untrained eye, as such.

Broner can't shut down a laptop, let alone a capable opponent his own size.

Floyd can be offensive at times as well (e.g. Judah and N'Dou) fights, but that's beside the point. I agree with everything you said; its just a terminology thing.

To me, it's all walking down whether you have mean intentions or you are using it as a tactic to create openings or exploit a fighter that doesn't like to fight backing up.

[Caught Square]

Lol this thread got heated

[B Phontain]

Lol why not? Castillo and Maidana gave Floyd all he could handle in their first fights. Just imagine what Duran could do.

and again he never had one why? because he knew how to adapt. you cant teach that. im not saying he couldnt lose. Im saying floyd makes you fight his fight, his pace, on his time. We all know this. the only people to have some success againts him were those who went balls to the wall and outweighed him 10lbs or more. But ray lost because well according to him he chose to fight durans fight or he couldnt figure duran out in the first fight. Its damn near legend how people will tell you right away "if you dont get floyd outta there in the first few rds, he'll have you figured out" or "you need a plan a, b, and c to fight floyd" thats all i mean.

[KillaMane26]

Robinson, Leonard and PBF but more so SSR SRL for having more power and toughness

[-PBP-]

and again he never had one why? because he knew how to adapt. you cant teach that. im not saying he couldnt lose. Im saying floyd makes you fight his fight, his pace, on his time. We all know this. the only people to have some success againts him were those who went balls to the wall and outweighed him 10lbs or more. But ray lost because well according to him he chose to fight durans fight or he couldnt figure duran out in the first fight. Its damn near legend how people will tell you right away "if you dont get floyd outta there in the first few rds, he'll have you figured out" or "you need a plan a, b, and c to fight floyd" thats all i mean.

No doubt. I love Duran but far less skilled fighters than Floyd defeated him. It would be a great matchup no doubt but it wouldn't be total domination by either guy.

[Syf]

Floyd can be offensive at times as well (e.g. Judah and N'Dou) fights, but that's beside the point. I agree with everything you said; its just a terminology thing.

To me, it's all walking down whether you have mean intentions or you are using it as a tactic to create openings or exploit a fighter that doesn't like to fight backing up.

Floyd used to be more offensive minded.. but I was referencing money, not pbf. Since it was Money who fought Canelo, that's the context I was using.

Fair enough.. to me it's more nuance than that but to each their own.

and again he never had one why? because he knew how to adapt. you cant teach that. im not saying he couldnt lose. Im saying floyd makes you fight his fight, his pace, on his time. We all know this. the only people to have some success againts him were those who went balls to the wall and outweighed him 10lbs or more. But ray lost because well according to him he chose to fight durans fight or he couldnt figure duran out in the first fight. Its damn near legend how people will tell you right away "if you dont get floyd outta there in the first few rds, he'll have you figured out" or "you need a plan a, b, and c to fight floyd" thats all i mean.

I don't necessarily think size is the only way..it's the style. Size can actually be a detriment because it will cut into a fighter's stamina. For instance.. Chino faded late in their fight (and had a minor second wind mind you) because of Garcia's strategy to come in heavy. I still think a trimmer Maidana, same size as Floyd, would have had the same results and even better because Maidana would have been able to keep a consistent pace. Similar fights with dogged opponents like jesus chavez and Castillo revealed the same thing. An atg pressure fighter would have been huge trouble for PBF. Prime Duran would have been too much to adjust to..too strong too brutal too wild. Size parity or not. It's the style more so than the size that Floyd has had fits with. That style that doesn't respect his craft or punches and just goes in like a buzzsaw as if he has no power to stop them. He struggles with that.