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It's just weird that Miguel Cotto is THE middleweight champion of the world. He's the man who beat the man who beat the man...
But he is absolutely not a middleweight and he probably never will be.Comment
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Fighters in lower weight classes head north during their careers far more often than fighters at the higher weights. If you start your pro career early enough, the jump in weight will usually end up depending on your height and your build as you continue to grow. Golovkin didn't turn pro until he was 24, and MW is what his body is built for.
As to your last point, simply put, it's the principle of the thing. As a boxing fan, I demand that major titles be contested at their proper weight. If Golovkin beat Ward at 164, I wouldn't consider him the SMW champ. He would just be the guy that beat Andre Ward at a catchweight. If he beat him at 168, I would consider Gennady the true 168 lb champion of the world. Gennady and Cotto/Canelo will not be fighting for the 157 lb WBC and lineal title, they will fighting for the 160 lb WBC and lineal title.
Cotto gave up that right when he won the title. Now he can either relinquish the title and offer Golovkin the fight at 154-157, which Gennady may still accept, or he can defend his title like a true champion.
Canelo.. if he loses to Cotto and still wants to fight Golovkin (not sure why he would)... ehhh, he may be off the hook for wanting a lower weight. Even down to 154, so I would expect Gennady to accept those terms. After all, you are correct. Golovkin said he could make 154, it's a big payday, and I would hope that he would agree to the weight. Although, it certainly wouldn't look good on Canelo's part, considering that he hasn't bothered to make 154 for his last three fights, but whatever. Bring on Nelo at 154-159.
Andre Ward can wait his turn. Gennady probably won't come back down from 168, so Ward will likely be the apex of his career. And I can't see Gennady going up to light heavyweight (possible I suppose, but not likely), so 168 will probably be his last weight class. They have the next year or so to crush their respective competition and build the hype for a superfight. Fans of each guy keep talking **** on the interwebz getting everything stirred up and before you know it they're selling 2 million ppvs (hopefully).
---------------------Last edited by Contra; 10-19-2015, 12:41 AM.Comment
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One more time you ignorant ass...
Cotto is the MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION. No one is asking him to move anywhere. The MIDDLEWEIGHT limit is 160 and if he cannot defend the title against a 160 lbs opponent, he should vacate it.
Now I am so tired of reading your ignorant, brainless, pointless posts that you are now part of the ignoramus brigade on my ignore list. ****** fool.Comment
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1. Catchweights, in both situations, are being proposed as measures to weaken the opponent (Cotto isn't physically a middleweight and Team Golovkin seem to believe that the only way they can hang with Ward is if they drag him down a handful of pounds).A few items that need to be addressed:
(I know this a bit tldr, but bear with me)
1. Please stop comparing a catchweight with Ward to a catchweight with Cotto/Canelo, especially in Cotto's case. Does Gennady have a belt at 168? Does Gennady fight at 161-165 because he can't make the MW limit? Oh, he doesn't? Then stfu immediately. If Cotto doesn't want to be the MW champ, he can hand his belt over to its rightful owner and avoid the fight altogether.
2. The Ward catchweight is what CWs are for. Champions of different divisions meeting in the middle. The fight offers for JCC jr and Froch were just that: fight offers. For money. Big money. No titles on the line, no p4p status, just money. The Ward offer seemed more like a way to put the ball in his court and shut him up for a bit so Gennady could finish his middleweight campaign without being called a ducker. In fact, even if they did fight at 164 and Golovkin beat Ward, I wouldn't recognize him as the real SMW champ, just as I have a hard time recognizing Cotto as the real MW champ.
3. With all this tough talk from the I-Hate-GGG crowd, why was a fight between Floyd and Gennady so ridiculous for so many to consider? Gennady was willing to come down to a weight where Floyd held titles and Floyd should be expected to defend those titles against the best fighters who can make the weight limit. It seems like the same posters that didn't want this fight to happen are the same ones demanding that GGG go up to 168 (where he's never fought and doesn't have belts) and see the best fighter in the division. Can't have it both ways, guys.
4. Stop assuming that Golovkin fans don't want a Ward fight. Any real fan of Gennady should want this fight to happen. I know what a win over Ward would do for Gennady's status and his legacy (at least among hardcore fans, anyway). Besides, I think Gennady could knock Ward on his ass a couple times, chase him around the ring, and beat him up over 12 rounds. It's not that far-fetched. I know Gennady wrote a pretty big check when he said he would fight anyone at 168, and it made more sense when he didn't have any big fights lined up at 160, but now he does and he wants to get those out of the way first. What's so terrible about that? He will move when he's ready to move up, he'll keep his word about fighting the best at 168, and hopefully Ward can still make SMW and the fight can happen. It's a good fight for both guys and a good fight for boxing. Unfortunately, Ward may not even be able to make 168 anymore. Does that mean Gennady is now ducking a light heavyweight? You know, for a so-called bum crusher with no skills or resume, his detractors certainly hold him to a high standard.
In summation, please don't let your personal feelings cloud your judgement. I saw it happen for years with the Floyd/Pac fan feud, and it seems like the whole thing is happening all over again. Let's try to remember that these guys are all brave warriors and deserve our respect. There are times when I post hateful things in the heat of the moment that I later regret. I am going to try my best to see these situations from the perspective of all of the fighters involved and their respective teams, and so should the rest of you.
There's no reason we can't be civil.
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2. The catchweight to Ward was simply a way for Golovkin to try and not look like a punk; after talking all that mess (about every fighter being scared to fight him), and chasing fights with Froch and Chavez Jr at 168, Team Golovkin crapped their pants when Ward said "I'll take the fight".
3. Floyd fighting Golovkin was a ridiculous proposition because Floyd had never weighed in for a fight above 152lbs (day-of weights being unknown, it's been argued that Floyd likely hasn't even walked into the ring for a fight at 152lbs). Golovkin's day of weight for the Lemeiux fight was just short of the +10lb cap mandated by the IBF (likely meaning that he put on even more weight come actually walking into the ring).
Floyd would weigh-in at his camp weight, walking into the ring near that same weight, while Golovkin boils down to 154 and walks into the fight adding on near 20 more pounds.
How you can figure that that would be just fine, yet be so up in arm about Golovkin fighting Andre Ward (who did weigh 173.5 with near three weeks to the Paul Smith fight, after 14 months out of the ring; all mentioned to say that Ward's day-of weight likely isn't all that much more than Golovkin's day-of weight) is beyond me.
4. The fact that Ward was within 5 pounds of 168, with three weeks of camp to go, makes it pretty obvious that Ward making super middleweight would've been no problem.
Beyond that, Golovkin should chase the big fights; the point should be made, however, that when Cotto-Canelo 2 gets booked and the Lee-Saunders winner looks elsewhere, a fight with Ward is by far the best fight that Golovkin could possibly make. If the man lines up bum fights instead, I'd hope that you, as a fan, would be honest enough to call it for what it is.Comment
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It doesn't matter whether Cotto is a natural MW or not, the same as it doesn't matter how much Floyd weighs on fight night. They have to defend their titles at the proper weight or give them up. Period. Besides, weren't there enough people on NSB that were sure Floyd would outbox him anyway? The 154 lb champ should be expected to defend his titles against the best at 154. If Andre was willing to come down to 160 I would expect Golovkin to sign on the dotted line immediately.
The Ward fight will happen when Gennady makes a permanent move to 168. I don't want the fight to happen at a CW. However, Andre will be the ultimate test, and Golovkin will likely need to have one or two fights at SMW before he takes on the best 168 lber (and one of the best fighters) in the sport. Froch or Chavez simply wouldn't have required that kind of preparation or comittment, so I'm not surprised that K2 made those offers, but put Ward on the waiting list. However, as a true GGG fan, I want that fight to happen, and I expect to keep his word about fighting the best at 168. He can beat Ward, and when he does it will cement his legacy.
As for his opponents at 160 in the coming year, if no top 10 MWs agree to fight, one could make the argument that maybe he should fight a contender at 168 to stay busy and try out the higher weight. However, if he wins (especially if he KOs the guy), there is no chance in HELL of any MW ever getting in the ring with him again. Goodbye unifications, goodbye undisputed champion status, goodbye multimillion dollar paydays. Tough call to make for a 33 year old boxer. But as to your point, yes, if they put him in with nobodies, I'll be critical. He's the unified champ, and I would hope that any MW in the world would be ready and willing to take up the challenge. Alas, those days of chasing glory seem like a distant memory. In fact, I am of the opinion that the fans are partly to blame for this. In the old days, Gennady would get props just for getting in the ring with Ward, win or lose, but the reality is that any loss (even to Ward) will get him branded as an overhyped bum. Really though, that shouldn't even change his position on the p4p list. It's Andre Ward ffs.
Anyway, thanks for the civil discussion.
-----------------------------Last edited by Contra; 10-19-2015, 10:08 AM.Comment
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Fans don't have any control over any fight. They can oppose certain fights all they want, but who are we kidding? Floyd fought Berto despite overwhelming opposition. They all fight the least risky fight with the most money.
What's ridiculous is this silly assumption that Ward wants Golovkin bad. He doesn't.Comment
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Besides a decent payday and a ppv appearance, a GGG fight doesn't do much for Ward.
I think Andre was a bit offended when a smaller guy was percieved to be calling him out. That's when you saw a normally mild-mannered guy start to get aggressive and insulting. Especially with this "little G" nonsense, which Golovkin's detractors have gleefully begun parroting.
Both of these guys are great boxers and should respect one another, as should their fans.
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Cool,.give up the belt, Cotto. That'll make GGG that.much closer to his goal/excuse to not face Ward, which will make the fight that much closer.Comment
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I don't think Cotto fights GGG. . . If he has the 160 title (which he does) He should fight at 160 or vacate. I think if Canelo is successful in November then possibly yes he will fight GGG.
Most likely not in a hurry and ODL will be pulling all the tricks out to tilt the odds no doubt, but I think it does happen.
As for the GGG and Ward thing, I'll go as far as saying title fight CW are worse. . . But there is sense of hypocrisy when you gather the facts and GGG's stance on Cotto/Canelo. He just could have done without that small tarnish.
However, that ship has saled for now and I don't really see much need to discuss it.Last edited by MPX309; 10-19-2015, 11:41 AM.Comment
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