Comments Thread For: Froch: Andre Ward is P4P 1, Golovkin Not in My Top Ten

[-Kev-]

Grouch resume is only considered good because of his skill level.

Let GGG fight all those same guys at the same time Froch did and I bet he wouldn't get half as much credit after knocking them all out.

Look at Little G's resume right now, and look at his rankings, how can you type this post without trolling? P4P rankings: #4 Ring, #8 TBRB, #2 ESPN. That is with beating Murray, Geale, Rubio. What do you think Pascal, Taylor, Dirrell, Bute, Abraham, Johnson, Kessler, Groves does for him?

Some how Geale and Murray are bums when one Was a unified champion and the other should have been lineal.

Weak division. Look at Geale's losses.

But guys like Abraham, Bika, Dirrel, and Bute are murders row when they're not even as accomplished as Geale.

Abraham has been champion in 2 weight classes. Including 2x 168 champion.

Bika I don't know what he has to do with Froch, but after losing to Ward he went on to became world champion.

Bute was favored to beat Froch and was champion for 5 years before losing to Froch.

Face facts the most accomplish guy Froch beat is Pascal (who isn't much better than Murray) and that was before he won the title.

Pascal is actually better and more accomploshed than Murray, he won The Ring 175 title and has wins against undefeated Dawson, Bute, and Diaconu 2x. That is a better resume than Murray's.

[aboutfkntime]

You need to learn how to read mongo....Martinez faced murray...Sergio Martinez should have lost the title that night ..Murray dropped Martinez 2 times and hurt him several times.....martinez was top 3 p4p at the time even though I never rated him highly ....Murray then faced golovkin and (read carefully) was butchered.....I'm not claiming Murray is a great fighter ...my list is because he is he best in that division.....he beats cotto and canelo all day long....now legacy wise for canelo...who exactly has canelo beaten......u mean a 40 year old Mosley ....or losing to mayweather every round and a controversial win over Lara .....or an inactive Kirkland....or maybe a joseito Lopez..that's hardly a sugar ray Leonard legacy lol...GTFOH p4p list my ass.....p4p for me means...who dominates his division...who wins his fights the most commanding and most likely will rule his division for many years...if it went on past accolades then Roy Jones and bernard Hopkins would be in the list of p4p 10..... Golovkin will beat every fighter at 169 period

Aaah ok, apologies I misread.

Fair call ^^

[aboutfkntime]

Name one champion outside of Klitschko that's been as dominant of his division...Golovkin now that Floyd is retired. It's funny when someone cleans out their division practically single handed they normally command a bit more respect than folks here want to show.

Why outside of Klitschko ?

I asked for your P4P criteria.

Divisional dominance is a fair call, but if that is your criteria, then lets NOT exclude Klitschko.

Klitschko has been more dominant for longer against a higher level of opposition...... and yet somehow Golovkin is ranked higher P4P?

This reminds me of when TheRing ranked Pacquiao #1 at welter, despite Manny having never beaten a welterweight at 147.

Call the division weak but none of the other top 20 fighters has even come close. Perhaps if Rigo was fighting more consistently, Pacquaio's best win in recent memory has been over Bradley...Marquez has not fought in two years, Miguel Cotto has beaten a barely licensed to fight maravilla and rodriguez in recent memory, Kovalev and Klitschko are the only current boxers dominating a division as close as golovkin has.

I know that this is unfashionable, especially on this site.....

But, two words.....

Floyd..... Mayweather..... oh, Jnr..... three words

Mayweather had two divisions on lock.

[aboutfkntime]

I dont dispute that Ward can be P4P #1, his opposition of late isnt that of p4p king though. When considering p4p i look at skills AND opposition and ive always assumed thats the collective criteria. Ward established himself as the #1 SMW with his Super 6 wins and proved his superiority over that crop of fighters, who are no longer active or retired. Theres a brand new crop of SMWs who Ward has yet to face. His inactivity has dropped his rating. Froch, Kesslar, etc., are all great wins, dont get me wrong but that was 4 yrs ago, and although he hasnt lost, he has yet to reassert himself over the current top SMWs. Same goes for Rigo, dude has sublime skills but theres gotta be a point when opposition level is considered.

I like GGG but hes not top10 P4P...neither is Brook. I gotta admit its difficult to pick the top 10 when alnost nobody is fightn each other. Boxing is in a sad sad state. If it wasnt for the smaller wts we wouldnt see top vs top. WW is probably the most overrated div atm also.

I agree.

Inactivity has to exclude Ward from any current ranking or list.

But I agree with the knowledgable insiders who admit that Ward only needs to get back in the ring to reclaim his status.

P4P is subjective, and Ward is a baaad boy.

[Alpha & Omega]

Overrated arrogant Froch is just saying to make himself look better. Froch retired because he knew he had no more options. He had GGG one weight class below him and Kovalev one weight class above him and he never even entertained either. And he calls himself great lol please. I wouldn't even rank him in the top 10 of all time great British fighters. His chin is the only reason he was ever in anyones conversation.

[hitking]

I dont dispute that Ward can be P4P #1, his opposition of late isnt that of p4p king though. When considering p4p i look at skills AND opposition and ive always assumed thats the collective criteria. Ward established himself as the #1 SMW with his Super 6 wins and proved his superiority over that crop of fighters, who are no longer active or retired. Theres a brand new crop of SMWs who Ward has yet to face. His inactivity has dropped his rating. Froch, Kesslar, etc., are all great wins, dont get me wrong but that was 4 yrs ago, and although he hasnt lost, he has yet to reassert himself over the current top SMWs. Same goes for Rigo, dude has sublime skills but theres gotta be a point when opposition level is considered.

I like GGG but hes not top10 P4P...neither is Brook. I gotta admit its difficult to pick the top 10 when alnost nobody is fightn each other. Boxing is in a sad sad state. If it wasnt for the smaller wts we wouldnt see top vs top. WW is probably the most overrated div atm also.

The problem with putting a lotta stock in P4P is that its 100% opinion based. Not only that. There's also no real criteria on compiling a list. Some people base it on resume. Some base it on who they think would win a head-2-head fight in a size indifferent world. Personally, I think q good list has a lil of both. Example, I haven't felt Floyd Mayweather was the best fighter in the world since the first Maidana fight. I think in a size indifferent world, there's 4-5 guys out there I'd pick to beat him. First on that list being Rigondeaux, who I feel is the beat fighter in the world. But, Floyd's skill level is still elite. Plus, he has a resume that trumps anyone that I feel is technically a better fighter today. Therefore, he's maintained the title of P4P King in my own lil boxing univerae.

Either way, I think folks nowadays put way too much stock in the P4P lists. P4P is fun to debate around the water cooler. But, divisional dominance is most important. At the end of the day, that's all the fighters have that they themselves can handle in the boxing ring.

[aboutfkntime]

The problem with putting a lotta stock in P4P is that its 100% opinion based. Not only that. There's also no real criteria on compiling a list. Some people base it on resume. Some base it on who they think would win a head-2-head fight in a size indifferent world. Personally, I think q good list has a lil of both. Example, I haven't felt Floyd Mayweather was the best fighter in the world since the first Maidana fight. I think in a size indifferent world, there's 4-5 guys out there I'd pick to beat him. First on that list being Rigondeaux, who I feel is the beat fighter in the world. But, Floyd's skill level is still elite. Plus, he has a resume that trumps anyone that I feel is technically a better fighter today. Therefore, he's maintained the title of P4P King in my own lil boxing univerae.

Either way, I think folks nowadays put way too much stock in the P4P lists. P4P is fun to debate around the water cooler. But, divisional dominance is most important. At the end of the day, that's all the fighters have that they themselves can handle in the boxing ring.

The bold is the real issue.

Great post !

[Joe Beamish]

Self serving assessment

I lost to Ward myself, so he's better than Golovkin.

[wlliam]

I agree.

Inactivity has to exclude Ward from any current ranking or list.

But I agree with the knowledgable insiders who admit that Ward only needs to get back in the ring to reclaim his status.

P4P is subjective, and Ward is a baaad boy.

I can agree with that to an extent. Ward is a supreme talent but hed have to beat Kova or Stevenson for me to rate him above Klitchsko. Where Klitchsko edges Ward is his activity and his opposition. If you look at each's respectable division Vlad has defeated more top rated contenders than Ward has and hes done so more consistently. And if Ward went up to LHW and unseated one of the Champs, he would have defeated the same level of comp over 2 divisions, one more than Vlad. Ward is a great fighter nonetheless, but what good are skills if hes not facing the best.

[turnedup]

Why outside of Klitschko ?

I asked for your P4P criteria.

Divisional dominance is a fair call, but if that is your criteria, then lets NOT exclude Klitschko.

Klitschko has been more dominant for longer against a higher level of opposition...... and yet somehow Golovkin is ranked higher P4P?

This reminds me of when TheRing ranked Pacquiao #1 at welter, despite Manny having never beaten a welterweight at 147.



I know that this is unfashionable, especially on this site.....

But, two words.....

Floyd..... Mayweather..... oh, Jnr..... three words

Mayweather had two divisions on lock.

Floyd retired so I don't include Floyd in my conversations as an active fighter any more and yes he dominated his division or better yet divisions. My criteria for p4p is flat out what you are doing in your division, what your performance is against your opponents. I named Klitschko and to hear folks here talk about Klitschko he ain't shh, same way they used to do bernard hopkins during his big run. Hell I was a Roy Jones Jr super fan so I know first hand what the talk around that era was. P4P to me is when you are so good mofo's need to start looking for fighters in other divisions to try and present a challenge. Let's just look at the entire scope of boxing and honestly ask yourself are there actually ten active fighters than this guy...like seriously ten. Even if you put him in the tenth spot he belongs on that list. It's not about KO's and it's not about your win streak it's about flat out performance. Yeah we can argue 160 isn't the best division because 140 and 147 are so stacked but we can make the same argument for 168, 175, and hell cruiser weight is flat out dead. Is he an all time great? No, is he a top ten p4p fighter right now..hell yeah he is. Is he a top 5? One could argue that, is he #1 p4p no that goes to Klitschko til he loses or retires.