Comments Thread For: Marquez Rejects Arum's Idea of Facing Pacquiao in 2016

[doom_specialist]

Sort of, but it's not a TKO. It's a self retirement. It's clearly different than a TKO. In standard boxing terms, it's not a 'stoppage' win. It's a corner retirement. If he was beaten into submission, then the ref would have jumped in during the round. Maybe that would have happened, but Oscar gave up before that.

A TKO, you get pulled out because you're basically about to be KTFO or too badly hurt to go on or your face is so ****ed up that you can't go on. It's anything other than a ten count that is stopped during the round. A retirement is just that. A fighter pulling out for whatever reason.

Oscar just couldn't do anything...he wasn't really getting badly hurt or anything, he was just too slow and drained to do anything and wasn't going to win, so he gave up.

"A bout ends in a knockout when a boxer is knocked down and cannot get up by the count of 10. A fight can be stopped by a technical knockout (TKO) when a boxer is deemed by the referee (and sometimes the ringside physician) to be unable to defend himself properly, when a boxer is deemed to have sustained a serious injury, or when a boxer or his seconds decide he should not continue."

A technical knockout is a technical knockout. RTDs are marked as technical knockouts. A technical knockout is a stoppage. Manny stopped ODLH. I'm going to sleep.

EDIT: I do hope my tone isn't douchey. I'm just a slave to facts, and only stating the non-speculatory. I really had a hair up my ass about that other guy saying JMM was dirty. The false accusations are lame. Sorry if I came off as having a pissy attitude

Now I'm going to sleep lmao

[BennyST]

i don't think so, benny.

jmm wasn't on anything 3rd fight.

he bulked up 4th.

you can tell. jmm was slow and sluggish 4th. he seemed normal 3rd fight to me.

i think he hired memo like 2011-2012. he wasn't with memo for ages. the jmm fans would know but i'm pretty sure jmm hired memo like 2011.

Nope, he was 100% with memo for the third fight already and was just as big. Pac fought differently, and Marquez fought differently too.

It was both of their game plans that led to that KO. Marquez working on landing those big single shots and Pac being more aggressive and open than in the third fight.

[BennyST]

"A bout ends in a knockout when a boxer is knocked down and cannot get up by the count of 10. A fight can be stopped by a technical knockout (TKO) when a boxer is deemed by the referee (and sometimes the ringside physician) to be unable to defend himself properly, when a boxer is deemed to have sustained a serious injury, or when a boxer or his seconds decide he should not continue."

A technical knockout is a technical knockout. RTDs are marked as technical knockouts. A technical knockout is a stoppage. Manny stopped ODLH. I'm going to sleep.

No. They're not. They're marked as what they are...RTD 8. Meaning retired after the 8th. It's not a TKO.

If it was a TKO, it would be a TKO. Not a difficult concept. TKOs happen during the round, RTD happen between rounds.

If a boxer or corner pulls out during the round, by turning his back (ala Duran) it's a TKO. If Duran had pulled out in between rounds, it's a corner retirement.

Hey man, don't get pissy when you were the one that started getting all technical on Tua and were wrong. If you wanna get technical about it, it's not a TKO. Simple as that. Look up the ****ing record if you need to. Sheesh.

[doom_specialist]

No. They're not. They're marked as what they are...RTD 8. Meaning retired after the 8th. It's not a TKO.

If it was a TKO, it would be a TKO. Not a difficult concept. TKOs happen during the round, RTD happen between rounds.

If a boxer or corner pulls out during the round, by turning his back (ala Duran) it's a TKO. If Duran had pulled out in between rounds, it's a corner retirement.

Hey man, don't get pissy when you were the one that started getting all technical on Tua and were wrong. If you wanna get technical about it, it's not a TKO. Simple as that. Look up the ****ing record if you need to. Sheesh.

Ugh, you missed the edit. Oh well.

In any case:

A TKO is fight action stopped by the referee while the clock was running.
A RTD is a fight stopped by the referee while the clock is stopped in between rounds. There is no physical activity taking place.

Both are technically knock outs and are recorded in the stoppage column.

Directly from a Boxrec editor. Don't know what else you want when an editor for a British site (where RTDs exist, because they certainly aren't in America) says an RTD is a stoppage :/



From 37:17. Doesn't get any clearer.

That's as far as I'm going with this. Pacquiao stopped Marquez. If you want to argue with the rules of boxing, go right ahead. Again, sorry for the tone. This is an argument about nothing anyway.

[Zaroku]

They should just give up on Marquez. The man is not gonna fight Pac again. I don't even understand why Marquez is still fighting? He got the win he wanted so I don't understand why he is just can't retire and just enjoy time with his family. He's gonna end up like one of those fighters who should have hung the gloves a long time ago, and will get seriously hurt if he keeps going.

Agreed! Take care of his health & family! But it may take a PAC type deep, deep sleep to wake him up and realize he is old! He bested PAC! Sent him to the hospital, where the doc found signs of brain damage etc!

I got a buddy who loves Ali, Ali beat foreman, Ali, Ali.....! But I would rather be Forman! Even if Ali whipped the dog crap out of me! Forman makes money, is on TV, comments on fights! I want to see the self proclaimed greatest do that!

I am not trying to be rude, but Forman is living the dream! Liots of Lil George's, lots of money, lots of success!

Losing is sometimes winning!

[bojangles1987]

LMAO

1) was a draw, Marquez had to drag Pacquaio back into the ring, an immediate rematch was obviously required, not 4 years later

2) was highly controversial, an immediate rematch was in order, again

3) Marquez clearly won

Pacquiao gave Marquez nothing !

The only reason there wasn't an immediate rematch after the first fight is because Marquez turned it down.

So no, Marquez did not have to "drag" Pacquiao back into the ring.

[BennyST]

Ugh, you missed the edit. Oh well.

In any case:

A TKO is fight action stopped by the referee while the clock was running.
A RTD is a fight stopped by the referee while the clock is stopped in between rounds. There is no physical activity taking place.

Both are technically knock outs and are recorded in the stoppage column.

Directly from a Boxrec editor. Don't know what else you want when an editor for a British site (where RTDs exist, because they certainly aren't in America) says an RTD is a stoppage :/

From 37:17. Doesn't get any clearer.

That's as far as I'm going with this. Pacquiao stopped Marquez. If you want to argue with the rules of boxing, go right ahead. Again, sorry for the tone. This is an argument about nothing anyway.

No, it doesn't get any clearer. You just repeated exactly what I've been saying from the start.

Let me rephrase it another way that'll make sense. In confined, boxing specific terms, you can get a 'stoppage' three ways...KO, TKO, RTD.

They are all different under the rules and definitions of boxing. You can put them all under the same umbrella if you want, but in boxing specific terms they are different.

Unless you consider the Marquez KO of Pacquiao to be the same as Oscar sitting in his corner and retiring on his own terms under his own steam.

Maybe you do...well, obviously you do. I don't and I don't think many others do, but if you do...

A KO and TKO are the opponent causing a direct stoppage during time. A retirement is the fighter himself pulling out in between rounds, all of which I've pointed out numerous times and you just repeated to me above for some reason. I know. I explained it twice to you. It's not a stoppage in the classic sense, which is what Tua was getting at and what you were arguing against.

It's not a TKO win. It's a retirement. Call that a 'stoppage' if you want, but it's still not a TKO as you were saying specifically in your first post.

...btw, they do have RTD in U.S. boxing. It's standard practice everywhere.

[Weebler I]

Absolutely no need to be this salty about Marquez winning. The series is 2-1-1 in Pacquiao's favor. Why when a fighter you like loses do you scream that the opponent was on PEDs? Couldn't it just be that Pacquiao is human, and prone to losing fights? Especially against a guy who is known as an extremely intelligent boxer, and saw Manny's style firsthand 3 times prior to knocking him out?

The guy is 41 and way past his prime. There's absolutely no reason for this fight to happen. And if a guy was on PEDs, I doubt he'd voluntarily drink his own piss for vitamins and minerals :/

I don't care about the result, I didn't even stay up to watch that fight. I actually liked Marquez and thought he was robbed in the third fight. What bothers me is drug cheats in the sport of boxing.

[doom_specialist]

No, it doesn't get any clearer. You just repeated exactly what I've been saying from the start.

Let me rephrase it another way that'll make sense. In confined, boxing specific terms, you can get a 'stoppage' three ways...KO, TKO, RTD.

They are all different under the rules and definitions of boxing. You can put them all under the same umbrella if you want, but in boxing specific terms they are different.

Unless you consider the Marquez KO of Pacquiao to be the same as Oscar sitting in his corner and retiring on his own terms under his own steam.

Maybe you do...well, obviously you do. I don't and I don't think many others do, but if you do...

A KO and TKO are the opponent causing a direct stoppage during time. A retirement is the fighter himself pulling out in between rounds, all of which I've pointed out numerous times and you just repeated to me above for some reason. I know. I explained it twice to you. It's not a stoppage in the classic sense, which is what Tua was getting at and what you were arguing against.

It's not a TKO win. It's a retirement. Call that a 'stoppage' if you want, but it's still not a TKO as you were saying specifically in your first post.

...btw, they do have RTD in U.S. boxing. It's standard practice everywhere.

Yes, the ref can award a fighter a win via RTD when a fighter quits, but it will always be announced as a TKO in the US. As a matter of fact, 99% of websites you click not named Boxrec, and 100% of non-British writers will say that Pacquiao won that fight via TKO. BBBoC and Boxrec terms are not universal, which you don't seem to understand. In any case, Pacquiao stopped ODLH, and that's all I was really arguing in the first place.

Directly from Boxrec:

"RTD is an abbreviated term for retired. It is used in a boxer's official fight record to indicate that the referee had stopped the bout during the minute rest period between rounds. The referee may have done so using his own or the ringside doctor's judgment, or when a fighter indicated during the rest period that he did not want to continue to the next round. Thus, for example, if a boxer quit during the rest period after the third round, BoxRec will record it as RTD-3.

RTDs usually are often recorded as a technical knockout (TKO), and are included in a boxer's knockout total in his official record."

This has been a lovely semantics battle (not). I'm quite over it.

[Cinci Champ]

take the emotion out of it which i understand for pac fans is easier said then done in ur mind pac gave marquez 4 chances he deserves 1 but see the way i see it is if u go back and watch all 4 fights no matter which side u are on the reality is marquez dont get the benefit of the doubt on anything with those 2 styles. the problem in marquez mind which honestly is hard to blame him is that the only way he can beat pac is by knocking him out and no matter how good he fights he will never get a decision. Honestly its hard to fault him for that