James "Lights Out" Toney vs Bernard "The Executioner" Hopkins @ 160lbs

[vorgaphe]

Who wins? Two greats of the sport and masterful inside fighters with great ring IQ. Poll to follow.

[Caught Square]

Toney was way too suspect at 160 especially for me to pick him over prime 160 Hopkins. All the talent of course but serious lack of stamina and overall sluggishness about him.

I think Hopkins would win a comfortable decision. beating him to the punch and outmuscling him on the inside as the fight goes on.

[Jc8804]

You think hopkins was cautious i the n roy 2 fight.

Shhht .. hopkins gets countered all night.

James is better at everything.

[therealpugilist]

Toney was way too suspect at 160 especially for me to pick him over prime 160 Hopkins. All the talent of course but serious lack of stamina and overall sluggishness about him.

I think Hopkins would win a comfortable decision. beating him to the punch and outmuscling him on the inside as the fight goes on.

We have to judge them off their best, not worse

IMO Toney had more talent and beat better fighters at 160....Michael Nunn in my eyes would have defeated the same people Hopkins did in his reign, so would have mike McCallum...he also beat reggie Johnson and Doug Dewitt

Hopkins fought in a deep era at 160 and didnt take risks until he moved up....How did he make it out of the 90's and have all those defenses when the only former middleweight titleholders he fought that decade were washed up John David Jackson, lost to Roy Jones?



Toney on his best day IMO was just a better overall fighter than Hopkins at middleweight


Not many people outmuscled Toney on the inside, his inside game was so good he could compete with heavyweights and he hardly ever clinched


Hopkins IMO had the advantage on the outside with his length and good lead right....Toney has the edge in defense in counterpunching and Hopkins has the edge in work rate if not punch output



I go with Toney because he would land the cleaner harder shots in a nip and tuck type fight that turns into a mini barnburner towards the end

[LacedUp]

Toney in top shape at 160? him all day.

He'd do to Hopkins what Jones did to Hopkins in my opinion.

[therealpugilist]

Hopkins resume and career at middleweight is so overrated

He holds no record there....just the most defenses for a trinket when their were 3 more floating around....didnt even defend the TRUE title but 6 times
just like Toney who defended against better fighters



he proved his greatness when he finally took risks and moved up out of that horrid division.....its craxy how deep middleweight was in the 90s but the 2000sucked

Hopkins isn't quick enough on his feet, or didnt hit hard enough for Toney to not find him often enough to win....whereas Hopkins had good defense then, it got better the older he got....Toney on the other hand hardly had much of a amateur career but looked like a 200+ amateur verteran when he was in his early 20's

[Caught Square]

We have to judge them off their best, not worse

IMO Toney had more talent and beat better fighters at 160....Michael Nunn in my eyes would have defeated the same people Hopkins did in his reign, so would have mike McCallum...he also beat reggie Johnson and Doug Dewitt

Hopkins fought in a deep era at 160 and didnt take risks until he moved up....How did he make it out of the 90's and have all those defenses when the only former middleweight titleholders he fought that decade were washed up John David Jackson, lost to Roy Jones?



Toney on his best day IMO was just a better overall fighter than Hopkins at middleweight


Not many people outmuscled Toney on the inside, his inside game was so good he could compete with heavyweights and he hardly ever clinched


Hopkins IMO had the advantage on the outside with his length and good lead right....Toney has the edge in defense in counterpunching and Hopkins has the edge in work rate if not punch output



I go with Toney because he would land the cleaner harder shots in a nip and tuck type fight that turns into a mini barnburner towards the end

But was his best at 160? I think his best weight was 168.

Yeah he fought some quality opponents at 160 no denying that but when he fought these opponents he didn't look good at all. Credit for rallying to stop Nunn. but the rest of his best wins at 160 were unconvincing performance wise imo.

[IronDanHamza]

Hopkins resume and career at middleweight is so overrated

He holds no record there....just the most defenses for a trinket when their were 3 more floating around....didnt even defend the TRUE title but 6 times
just like Toney who defended against better fighters



he proved his greatness when he finally took risks and moved up out of that horrid division.....its craxy how deep middleweight was in the 90s but the 2000sucked

Hopkins isn't quick enough on his feet, or didnt hit hard enough for Toney to not find him often enough to win....whereas Hopkins had good defense then, it got better the older he got....Toney on the other hand hardly had much of a amateur career but looked like a 200+ amateur verteran when he was in his early 20's

So is Toney's though.

Toney's resume in general is overrated as is James Toney in general.

[therealpugilist]

So is Toney's though.

Toney's resume in general is overrated as is James Toney in general.

Today, I don't think too many people overrate him , besides his die hard fans over the age of 25....the young uns remember fat Toney from Jirov til today

I don't see Hopkins ever competing with Heavyweights...world ranked ones at that......that's no easy feat for anyone who fought 40+ fights at 168 and below


nobody really talks much about Toneys resume but I cant think of anyone else off the top of my head that won a title at middleweight and cruiserweight...gonna be a while before we ever see that again....and he faced the number one guy in both divisions not some Euro no name with a WBO belt

[boliodogs]

Hopkins beat all 21 of his opponents in middleweight title fights and never lost to anybody but Jones until he was over 40 years old. He was past 40 when he lost two decisions to Taylor and I thought he won both of those fights. In his prime at 160 Hopkins was almost unbeatable. He was smart, fast, and hit hard with both hands and had great stamina. Both Hopkins and Toney had iron jaws so there would be no knockdowns. Toney was damn good but not as good as Hopkins or as consistent. Jones beat Toney much easier than he beat Hopkins. When Hopkins lost to Jones he hadn't hit his prime yet. A prime Hopkins beats a prime Toney by close ud. at 160 in my opinion.