Comments Thread For: Froch on 'Bitter' Calzaghe: My Stats Smash His To Bits!

[thack]

In their primes I would take Joe on points all day, they were in slightly different times with Carl just warming up and Joe on his final 2/3 fights and Joe going down in his last two and looking a little more vulnerable than ever before ...perfect time to retire and Carl should have no complaints that Joe did retire when he did.
As Carl will find out although he probably knows already there's always a new kid on the block and Carl proved to be this for Joe as maybe Degale is this to Carl.
I hope history is kind to Carl as he fought and beat world champions back to back but he was NOT unbeaten and the guy that will be remembered for having his number and Carl not seriously attempting to turn that result will always be a sticking point for Carl,For as Joe said Carl wasn't even the best at his own weight in his own time.....could be cruel but Carl should let the fans decide and not get too bitter as i'm sure the fans of today will be kind .
I still have a sneaky feeling Car's ego is too big to rest for too long and I think we may see him one last time .

[robertzimmerman]

What stats Carl?

I like Froch but his record doesdoesn't stack up to Calzaghe's.

Joe was the man in 2 weight divisions when he retired - Ring champ in both.

Carl has never been no:1 in the SMW division.

They'vE fought a similar level of opponents - Joe has a lot of World Champions on his resume more than Carl so I dont see where he's coming from there either.

Ultimately Joe's got 2 wins that Froch can't match - a prime peak and undE feared Kessler and legend Hopkins at LHW. Carl doesn't have any as good as thowe 2.

Losing to a more shop worn version of Kessler before beating onE well past his best.

Hopkins went on to defeat Pascal who is arguably FRoch 2nd best win (some years after losing to Calzaghe).

Froch also struggled and was at times outboxed anx out classed in a lot of fights in a way Calzaghe never was - Taylor, Darrell, Ward, Groves 1.

I think Joe getting to fight in Vegas and MS Garden rankles with Froch as the best he fought will at was the Boardwalk Atlantic City.

I just can't see how Froch record stacks up - he fought a good level of opposition but ultimately fell short twice has never been no 1 in one division where Joe was in 2 and he doesn't have 2 wins as good as Joe's 2.

Good post.

Joe was the better fighter, but Carl gets more respect. Carl pushed himself to the limits like Hatton did, but came up short. Whereas, Joe never put himself in that position.

Also, could you really call Joe 'The Man' at LHW when he retired?

He got a razor thin win over Hopkins in a truly horrible fight, where neither guy looked great.

[Daddy T]

i think in general froch sums up what is good about boxing ... willing to go on the road and fight the best win some lose some ... while joe sums up whats bad about boxing ... protected record unwilling to fight the best in their primes and 3 biggest wins coming against guys who are past their best ... eubanks, jones, hopkins (with jones not just being past his best but completely shot and the hopkins win being highly debatable)

I feel joe would win in a prime for prime fight but froch did more with the talent he had

[deathofaclown]

Calzaghe would have won head to heat no doubt. And people who say Calzaghe avoided him should understand Froch had never even fought at world level when Calzaghe had just beat Jones and retired so Froch wasn't even a name, this was before he even fought Pascal, nevermind Taylor and the Super six.

I think Froch might have a better legacy and i wouldn't argue it much but one point i will make is Calzaghe never completely ducked the best fighters like some will claim. Kessler was the guy people said could beat him and he was undefeated and Calzaghe got in the ring and beat him. Also, beating Jeff Lacy at the time is a good win , the reason i say that is before that fight people were saying he's going to demolish Calzaghe and he was the best SMW, "Mini Tyson" etc but he never ducked him... and in my opinion it is very unfair to judge a fight on hindsight and say he was never that good. You have to judge a fight on the situation where the first bell rings and as it stands, Calzaghe got in there with a guy they said was a killer and did an absolute job on him. Also he beat Hopkins at LMW in his first ever fight at the weight and Hopkins has had some very good wins since then, even Froch didn't really fancy it because he knew it's a tricky fight.

I think Calzaghe's career is a bit underrated by some. He had some very good wins at the time the fights were made but i do think he could have done more like pre 2006. He certainly had the talent to be great, did he have the desire to be great? Where as Froch probably wasn't as good as Calzaghe but seemed to strive for greatness more and made the most of what he had.

[robertzimmerman]

it is very clear, joe calzaghe is far better than froch and would have beaten ward on any night of the week. lets not forget, he remained unbeaten throughout his 46 and 0 career with drama and also boredom along the way.
nobody in the u.s was prepared to face him at the time and when they eventually did have the guts........all beaten. carl froch and his 34 or whatever fights is only getting started in terms of longevity but, carl WAS easy to hit whereas joe was not. joe threw more punches in a couple of fights than both froch and ward put together. andre ward is sharp and from what i can see is very good but just wasted the last two years crying about one thing or another and has only two names on his record being froch and kessler (whos "0") the great J.C took when he was a threat.
ward has only 28 fights and americans are calling him one of the best?
what? ray robbo had more than 100 fights before people credited him with being one of the best INFACT it was probably after he died that we only gave him this entitlement as a great.
ward=pretty good so far.
froch=exciting because he could take a punch and throw hard too.
joe calzaghe= unbeaten in 46, beat every "great" american put in front of him,threw more punches per fight than anybody in the modern era(certainly at the weight) and goes down in the history books.
the other two....? froch wont and wards career is just getting started so lets see, its far to early to start saying hes this or that because hes not....yet.

I think you need a reality check here.

No great American fighter wanted to fight Joe in the late 90's/early 00's, because he was a relatively unknown, European SMW who fought in a weak division, who defended a lightly regarded title that wasn't respected.

Joe could have moved up to LHW to seek fights against the likes of Roy Jones etc, put he was more than happy to fight whoever the WBO and Frank W lined up for him.

With regards to getting hit, Joe was also relatively easy to hit, especially with right hands, and he could be reckless at times.

With regards to his unbeaten record, was it really that impressive? Look who he fought and a what point etc. His biggest wins were against Kessler and Hopkins. Kessler was very good, but not elite, and the Hopkins fight was an awful fight that was close.

Also, his punch output isn't particularly that impressive, especially when you consider that most of those punches were cuffing shots, and he concentrated more on volume than accuracy. He was immensely talented, but he could also be very scrappy.

I think you'll find in the majority of these discussions, that Joe was the better fighter, but Carl gets a lot more respect.

[robertzimmerman]

Froch could have ended his career on a high note with a big name which would have cemented his legacy much better than it is today. Ending your career fighting some guy barely anyone has heard of twice (Groves) and calling that a world class opponent is far from ideal. Calzaghe dominated his opponents, Froch was always in competitive fights that in many cases could have gone either way. Calzaghe would have knocked him out.

Likewise, Joe could have ended his career on a better note instead of fighting Roy Jones, who he'd said was washed up on three separate occasions.

[robertzimmerman]

Calzaghe would have won head to heat no doubt. And people who say Calzaghe avoided him should understand Froch had never even fought at world level when Calzaghe had just beat Jones and retired so Froch wasn't even a name, this was before he even fought Pascal, nevermind Taylor and the Super six.

I think Froch might have a better legacy and i wouldn't argue it much but one point i will make is Calzaghe never completely ducked the best fighters like some will claim. Kessler was the guy people said could beat him and he was undefeated and Calzaghe got in the ring and beat him. Also, beating Jeff Lacy at the time is a good win , the reason i say that is before that fight people were saying he's going to demolish Calzaghe and he was the best SMW, "Mini Tyson" etc but he never ducked him... and in my opinion it is very unfair to judge a fight on hindsight and say he was never that good. You have to judge a fight on the situation where the first bell rings and as it stands, Calzaghe got in there with a guy they said was a killer and did an absolute job on him. Also he beat Hopkins at LMW in his first ever fight at the weight and Hopkins has had some very good wins since then, even Froch didn't really fancy it because he knew it's a tricky fight.

I think Calzaghe's career is a bit underrated by some. He had some very good wins at the time the fights were made but i do think he could have done more like pre 2006. He certainly had the talent to be great, did he have the desire to be great? Where as Froch probably wasn't as good as Calzaghe but seemed to strive for greatness more and made the most of what he had.

Good post.

This is basically how I see it:

Carl never had the skills to match his ambition.

Whereas Joe never had the ambition to match his skills.

[W1LLPARK3R]

In all fairness to Joe, he didn't leave Frank Warren until the twilight of his career..like Hatton, Warren was the architect of his career and way too careful in the match making department..they both had to twist his arm to fight good competition while they were still being promoted by him..

[robertzimmerman]

In all fairness to Joe, he didn't leave Frank Warren until the twilight of his career..like Hatton, Warren was the architect of his career and way too careful in the match making department..they both had to twist his arm to fight good competition while they were still being promoted by him..

I think Joe was more than content to fight whoever Frank put in front of him to be honest. Last year, Joe bragged to Carl (through the media) of his number of WBO title defences. But a lot of those defences were against B and C class fighters, and only a handful of them were actually mandatories. I also read an interview where Frank criticised Joe for wanting to fight a guy called Freeman Barr.

[SonofZorro]

Froch was No Joe Calzaghe

Froch was a good fighter who took on the best fighters in the World but Calzaghe would have beaten the slow Froch anywhere they met. Calzaghe was a great fighter with fast hands and tremendous speed and skill. Froch was slower than Joe and would have been picked apart.