Why did Dariusz Michalczewski vs Roy Jones Jr not happen?

[BattlingNelson]

Kohl offered Jones exactly half of what DM was going to get in Germany.

Which was how much exactly? You should know, since you've read it all.

[BattlingNelson]

Kohl offered Jones exactly half of what DM was going to get in Germany.

Which was how much exactly? You should know, since you've read it all.

Ok. I'll tell you just for the giggles. Kohl offered Jones 9M deutschmarks. Jones refused and wanted double that amount. 9M deutschmarks was about 5M USD. You are saying that DM was then going to get 10M which is absurd.

[robertzimmerman]

As I said, DM was champ. Jones had a bunch of trinkets.

No he wasn't.

Have you not read my post?

Rightly or wrongly, Roy had ALL of the belts. You can talk about legitimacy and lineage etc, but Roy had all of the belts in 2001.

What happened to Dariusz was bad, but it had nothing to do with Roy. Also, Dariusz had no claim to the WBC belt.

So again, why should Roy have put three belts up against one in Germany?

Also, did you see what Dariusz did against Roch in their first fight?

It was cringeworthy.

Roy had every right to be concerned about going to Germany, especially what happened to him in the Olympics. Look at some of Sven Ottke's fights.

[VG_Addict]

So tarver 3 times ,hill ,griffin twice and ruiz and glencoffe, lebedev arent the best comp??

I meant in his prime, so that leaves out Tarver, Johnson, and Lebedev.

What were Hill and Griffin's best wins before and after fighting Roy?

[BattlingNelson]

No he wasn't.

Have you not read my post?

Rightly or wrongly, Roy had ALL of the belts. You can talk about legitimacy and lineage etc, but Roy had all of the belts in 2001.

What happened to Dariusz was bad, but it had nothing to do with Roy. Also, Dariusz had no claim to the WBC belt.

So again, why should Roy have put three belts up against one in Germany?

Also, did you see what Dariusz did against Roch in their first fight?

It was cringeworthy.

Roy had every right to be concerned about going to Germany, especially what happened to him in the Olympics. Look at some of Sven Ottke's fights.

As I said. Jones had a bunch trinkets which was his ticket to justify continous fighting of obscure mandos. DM was the rightful lineal champion. End of.

Yeah Rocchigianni. Have you heard of Axel Schulz?

What is it you are trying to say anyway? That DM is solely to blame for the Jones fight not being made? Really?

[Mr. Philadel]

Michalczewski refused to fight anywhere other than Germany. Roy Jones refused to fight outside the United States because of the crap he went through in the Olympics. At the time, Jones was in him prime and was one of the three best fighters P4P in the world. He had the power to dictate the terms of any fight in which he participated.


Germany has a strong reputation for robbing foreign fighters. Jones would have definitely gotten robbed if he had fought in Germany. Jones would have KO'd Michalczewski if they had fought. However, in Germany, the ref would have disqualified Jones for hitting Michalczewski too hard.

Dariusz as well as Roy are on my ALL-TIME fav list....I'm kinda glad they never ironed out the wrinkles...NEVER wanted to see either dude lose...same with BHop vs Roy....I didn't wanna see either of them take a "L"

[robertzimmerman]

As I said. Jones had a bunch trinkets which was his ticket to justify continous fighting of obscure mandos. DM was the rightful lineal champion. End of.

Yeah Rocchigianni. Have you heard of Axel Schulz?

What is it you are trying to say anyway? That DM is solely to blame for the Jones fight not being made? Really?

No, of course I'm not saying that.

Dariusz was the lineal champ. But Roy crushed the guy who Dariusz beat to be lineal, plus he also had the WBC belt, and had beaten Del Valle and Johnson for Dariusz's old belts.

So I can see it from both sides. Dariusz was making good money in Germany, and he was the lineal champ.

And Roy was the unified champ, and the best fighter in the world.

Then add to the fact that both guys had huge egos, and nobody was ever going to back down.

But the only thing I'll add, is that I do believe that Roy would have fought him in America. Also, Roy made it clear that he was never going to Germany, whereas Dariusz said at one point that he was willing to fight in America.

So they're both to blame. But Roy did fight other big fights after negotiations broke down, whereas Dariusz didn't. I do agree with the guys who've said that Dariusz seemed content to defend the WBO for good money. His resume after he was stripped tells it's own story in my opinion.

Also, if Dariusz had been stripped, wouldn't you have thought that he'd have been extremely pissed with Roy parading around with two of his old belts? Wouldn't that have made him determined to try and fight Roy to regain them? Seemingly not. To be honest, I don't think he was that bothered.

But my original point to you, was that I don't think Roy should be blamed for not wanting to go to Germany.

[BattlingNelson]

No, of course I'm not saying that.

Dariusz was the lineal champ. But Roy crushed the guy who Dariusz beat to be lineal, plus he also had the WBC belt, and had beaten Del Valle and Johnson for Dariusz's old belts.

So I can see it from both sides. Dariusz was making good money in Germany, and he was the lineal champ.

And Roy was the unified champ, and the best fighter in the world.

Then add to the fact that both guys had huge egos, and nobody was ever going to back down.

But the only thing I'll add, is that I do believe that Roy would have fought him in America. Also, Roy made it clear that he was never going to Germany, whereas Dariusz said at one point that he was willing to fight in America.

So they're both to blame. But Roy did fight other big fights after negotiations broke down, whereas Dariusz didn't. I do agree with the guys who've said that Dariusz seemed content to defend the WBO for good money. His resume after he was stripped tells it's own story in my opinion.

Also, if Dariusz had been stripped, wouldn't you have thought that he'd have been extremely pissed with Roy parading around with two of his old belts? Wouldn't that have made him determined to try and fight Roy to regain them? Seemingly not. To be honest, I don't think he was that bothered.

But my original point to you, was that I don't think Roy should be blamed for not wanting to go to Germany.

You Seem quite narrowminded and unable to see a case from both sides.

You give Roy a pass for not wanting to go to Germany despite being offered huge money to do so. At the same time you are saying DM was willing to go to the US yet fail to mention that all he was offered was an undercard slot to little money and no guarantee whatsoever for a subsequent fight with Roy. Knowing how Roy was, lets just say 'elusive', in negotiations, that was clearly a raw deal.

Lets face it. Roy had a great gig going in the US where HBO paid him handsomely for fighting useless mandos. He was a beltcollector not looking very hard for legacy. DM had his thing in Germany and would not leave money on the table to pursue a Roy fight in the US.

All in all there was never enough money to satisfy both.

[robertzimmerman]

You Seem quite narrowminded and unable to see a case from both sides.

You give Roy a pass for not wanting to go to Germany despite being offered huge money to do so. At the same time you are saying DM was willing to go to the US yet fail to mention that all he was offered was an undercard slot to little money and no guarantee whatsoever for a subsequent fight with Roy. Knowing how Roy was, lets just say 'elusive', in negotiations, that was clearly a raw deal.

Lets face it. Roy had a great gig going in the US where HBO paid him handsomely for fighting useless mandos. He was a beltcollector not looking very hard for legacy. DM had his thing in Germany and would not leave money on the table to pursue a Roy fight in the US.

All in all there was never enough money to satisfy both.

How am I narrow minded?

Yes, I can see things from both sides.

But you'd got one guy who was adament he was never going to Germany, with the other guy saying he was willing to go to America. But talk is cheap. Kerry Davis had to fax the proposal of the double header over, as Kohl was purposely ignoring his calls at the time. He actually admitted that, because he was pissed that Roy had turned down his offers to go to Germany, even though Roy had said he was never going. I've seen an article online. But there was no negotiation whatsoever regarding the double header. It was just turned down flat through the media. Kohl was quoted as saying that if Roy didn't want to go to Germany, then HBO had to make them a great offer for Dariusz to go to America. But again, things never got that far because Kohl was never able to negotiate either face to face, or via the phone. Hence the fax.

Also, it wasn't simply an undercard slot. That's just how Kohl portrayed it to the media, so he could say that it was an insult. It was just a cop out in my opinion. And do you honestly believe that HBO would have brought Dariusz over from Germany, if there wouldn't have been a guarantee that they'd have fought each other afterwards had they both won? It was a good idea, and it would have showcased Dariusz to the American public.

But again, Dariusz and Kohl passed off the offer as though it was an insult, and it was beneath them. Funny how it wasn't beneath them to fight Hall twice, and De Grandis etc though.

You're right, Roy was paid handsomely for his mando's. But he also had big fights, and certain fights were hard to make. Whereas Dariusz fought weak opposition that weren't even mandatories. When Roy fought Harmon, Dariusz was asked if he was going to watch the fight. To which he replied that he had no interest in watching Roy fight a guy of that calibre. Yet he then went out and fought him himself, as well as Hall, who Roy had already hammered. Those were not the actions of a guy wanting to have big fights. Again, why wasn't Dariusz going crazy to try and get his old belts back? That to me speaks volumes.

But I don't blame Dariusz for doing what he did. I only criticise him for (IMO) pretending that he was willing to fight Roy in America, when he clearly wasn't.

But I just wish that either Roy had beaten Hill first, or that Dariusz hadn't lost his belts through politics. That would have been very interesting. Because Roy would had to have gone to Germany to unify, had he not beaten Del Valle and Johnson.

[BattlingNelson]

How am I narrow minded?

Yes, I can see things from both sides.

But you'd got one guy who was adament he was never going to Germany, with the other guy saying he was willing to go to America. But talk is cheap. Kerry Davis had to fax the proposal of the double header over, as Kohl was purposely ignoring his calls at the time. He actually admitted that, because he was pissed that Roy had turned down his offers to go to Germany, even though Roy had said he was never going. I've seen an article online. But there was no negotiation whatsoever regarding the double header. It was just turned down flat through the media. Kohl was quoted as saying that if Roy didn't want to go to Germany, then HBO had to make them a great offer for Dariusz to go to America. But again, things never got that far because Kohl was never able to negotiate either face to face, or via the phone. Hence the fax.

Also, it wasn't simply an undercard slot. That's just how Kohl portrayed it to the media, so he could say that it was an insult. It was just a cop out in my opinion. And do you honestly believe that HBO would have brought Dariusz over from Germany, if there wouldn't have been a guarantee that they'd have fought each other afterwards had they both won? It was a good idea, and it would have showcased Dariusz to the American public.

But again, Dariusz and Kohl passed off the offer as though it was an insult, and it was beneath them. Funny how it wasn't beneath them to fight Hall twice, and De Grandis etc though.

You're right, Roy was paid handsomely for his mando's. But he also had big fights, and certain fights were hard to make. Whereas Dariusz fought weak opposition that weren't even mandatories. When Roy fought Harmon, Dariusz was asked if he was going to watch the fight. To which he replied that he had no interest in watching Roy fight a guy of that calibre. Yet he then went out and fought him himself, as well as Hall, who Roy had already hammered. Those were not the actions of a guy wanting to have big fights. Again, why wasn't Dariusz going crazy to try and get his old belts back? That to me speaks volumes.

But I don't blame Dariusz for doing what he did. I only criticise him for (IMO) pretending that he was willing to fight Roy in America, when he clearly wasn't.

But I just wish that either Roy had beaten Hill first, or that Dariusz hadn't lost his belts through politics. That would have been very interesting. Because Roy would had to have gone to Germany to unify, had he not beaten Del Valle and Johnson.

Loudon?

It was an undercard fight. A fight that would make DM lose money as he could have made more in Germany hence the insult.

There was no guarantee for a Jones fight after so stop it. HBO could not give such a guarantee and Kohl full well knew how difficult it was to negotiate with Jones. He'd probably think that Jones would make ridiculous demands as he did previously, so you really shouldn't blame Kohl/DM. But you do which shows your inability to see it from another perspective than Jones's jockstrap.