Comments Thread For: Laila Ali on Mayweather: TBE Takes More Than an '0'

[yaescr]

Let's go over the most impressive wins by Ali and see who he really beat that was in his prime.

Sonny Liston was 33 years old and his biggest win was against Floyd Patterson who was a light heavyweight.

Floyd Patterson was 31 and he was clearly past prime at this point in time coming of 2 KO losses to Sonny Liston.

George Chuvalo was 31-11 going into the fight

Henry Cooper was 28-10 going into the fight

Jerry Quarry was 37-4-4 going into the fight with recent KO losses to Joe Frazier and George Chuvalo.

Joe Frazier his most credible opponent, he was the reigning heavyweight champion and he was undefeated in his prime, Ali gets full credit for fighting him but he lost the fight.

Jimmy Ellis was a good opponent and a former world champ, but he had 6 losses going into the fight including a recent KO loss to Joe Frazier, Ellis was good but unfortunately he lost to all the good fighters he faced, he was clearly past prime at that point.

Floyd Patterson again, joke fight.

Ken Norton was great, great opponent, young and in his prime, no doubt the best he could've fought but he lost.

Ken Norton II same like the first fight but Ali got the decision this time in a razor close fight, good for Ali

Joe Frazier II Frazier was past prime and was coming off a devastating KO loss to George Foreman, still Ali struggled with him.

George Foreman Biggest win of his career and the biggest upset in the history of the sport, no question a terrific win for Ali.

Ron Lyle, good opponent for Ali, Lyle was young and in his prime but he was coming off a loss to Jimmy Young and he didn't have any names on his record prior to the fight with Ali, and after the fight he didn't accomplish much either.

Jimmy Young was 17-4-2 going into the fight, he was a good fighter but he didn't beat anybody of note before the fight with Ali and he gave Ali a good fight for 15 rounds.

Joe Frazier 3, Frazier was clearly past it in this one and he still gave Ali hell for 14 rounds, Ali was going to quit but Frazier did it first, great fight but Frazier was clearly past prime.

Leon Spinks had 7 pro fights, Ali was unfortunately out of prime too and he lost

Leon Spinks 2 again Spinks didn't have much experience and the fight set record in the number of clinches.

Larry Holmes great opponent and an ATG, Ali gets full credit for fighting him even though he lost.

So to me the prime tough opponents he faced were Frazier 1 (loss), Ken Norton (loss), George Foreman, and Larry Holmes (loss and it shouldn't have happened in the first place).

Floyd has some good names on his resume too, Corrales was in his prime and was undefeated, beat a lot of good names before and after the fight with Floyd, Castillo was good and young and went on to beat good names after the fight with Floyd, Ricky Hatton was undefeated and he was still in his prime, JMM was a comeback fight after a 2 year layoff and he absolutely dominated, Mosley was old but was coming off the biggest KO win of his career against Margarito, the guy who people said Floyd ducked, Canelo was in his prime and he was the undefeated bigger guy who was supposed to beat Floyd, Maidana was at his peak coming off the biggest win of his career against Adrien Broner and of course beating Manny Pacquiao EASILY was the icing on the cake.

Excellent post!!!
Bottom line is, Mayweather has defeated all of his haters FAVORITE boxer by now, and they can never forgive him for their incurable heart aches.

[sako5]

Floyd = TBE
Pacquiao = #48

[ShoulderRoll]

Even Laila Ali admits that Floyd technically has a lot in his arsenal.

[jdp28tx]

The problem with Mayweather is he never fought the great fighters of his era during their primes. Not one. He usually waited until they were all past their primes and in one instance when 1 fighter was too green.

All the greats fought other greats of there time in their career primes. This was important to them. Yes, money was important to them too, but they were not obsessed with this A-side B-side bull****. This obsession with A-side has been created by Mayweather and his minions have picked up on it and have made it the be all and end all of what is suppose to be important. Even the press has gotten caught up in it. And now other fighters are doing it even when they, themselves are not A material yet or may never be A material.

De La Hoya fought Trinidad when they were both in their prime. He fought Quartey, Mosley, Vargas, Hopkins all when they were in the prime of their careers.

Sugar Ray fought Hearns when they were both in their primes, also Benitez and Duran. Hoyfield fought Bowe while both were in their prime. Jones & Toney fought each other while they were in their prime. Ali fought Frasier, Chavez fought Taylor, Lewis fought Vitali, Barerra & Morales fought each other in their prime. I can go on and on when great fighters fought the best of their eras while each combatant was in the prime of their careers.

On the other side you have Mayweather. Who talks about how smart he is when it comes to picking who he fights and how smart he is when setting up all the rules that his opponent must obey in order to have the honor of fighting him. I must say its not being smart, but being clever. So Mayweather only chooses his opponent after careful consideration.

His decision is based on lowering the risk of possibly losing. And fighting fighters past their prime lowers the risk of him losing far more than any other factor. Let us look at the evidence. Now I am just looking at the best of his era. I do give him credit for his time at 130lbs, but when he moved up to 135 things changed. He fought arguably the best lightweight champ on the 1st decade of the 21st century, Castillo, and everyone knows he lost that fight. So 135lbs is the last time he fought a great champion while both were in their prime.

He fought no one of worth at 140lbs. Next stop was 147 and above. He fought De La Hoya at the end of his career when Oscar was a part-time fighter. He fought Mosley and Cotto when both were past their prime. Mayweather could of fought much better competition, but the risk factor was much lower against Baldomir, Gatti, Judah, Guererro & Ortiz so he took those fights instead.

Pacquiao is the best example of my theory. A fight that should of taken place 5-7 yrs ago only happened 2 weeks ago. Now something like this is unique. An instance like this has never really happened in the modern age of boxing. The few times something similar like this happened , when 2 great fighters never fought, happened in the early 1900s and it had to do with with race. There was absolutely 0 excuses for Mayweather to have not fought Paq 5-7yrs ago. The excuses of money, promoters, drug testing, etc. were used only to stop the fight from happening. Imagine if Leonard made these excuses and refused to fight Hearns. If Jones did the same thing with Toney, Holyfield made the same excuses regarding Bowe. No one would of stood for it and these excuses would of been addressed and the fight would of been made. But Mayweather finally accepts the fight after everyone finally had enough. And by this time the risk of him losing was reduced significantly. By 2015 Manny had a few loses, and he was 36 1/2 yrs of age ( a fighter of his type, wear & tear made him much older). Mayweather's age of 39 is much less of a factor due to his style and his 2 yr lay-off.

Do we all agree that Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, De La Hoya, Duran, Chavez would of fought Paq while they were all equally in their prime? We all know the answer to that. We know the answer because we know the characters of the above named fighters. They all wanted to fight the best while they were all at there best. They did this during there careers because it matters. Its about fair play, its about honor and they get all the glory this way. This way there can be no excuses at all and defeating the greats of there time while they were still in there prime made the victory so much more meaningful, historically important, and sweeter. Mayweather cannot say the same about his career and even though he has a win against Pacquiao we all know how meaningless it is not because of Paqs injury, but because he fought an old fighter and there is no glory or bragging rights when beating an old fighter. (just asked Calzaghe).

[Rath]

Let's go over the most impressive wins by Ali and see who he really beat that was in his prime.

Sonny Liston was 33 years old and his biggest win was against Floyd Patterson who was a light heavyweight.

Floyd Patterson was 31 and he was clearly past prime at this point in time coming of 2 KO losses to Sonny Liston.

George Chuvalo was 31-11 going into the fight

Henry Cooper was 28-10 going into the fight

Jerry Quarry was 37-4-4 going into the fight with recent KO losses to Joe Frazier and George Chuvalo.

Joe Frazier his most credible opponent, he was the reigning heavyweight champion and he was undefeated in his prime, Ali gets full credit for fighting him but he lost the fight.

Jimmy Ellis was a good opponent and a former world champ, but he had 6 losses going into the fight including a recent KO loss to Joe Frazier, Ellis was good but unfortunately he lost to all the good fighters he faced, he was clearly past prime at that point.

Floyd Patterson again, joke fight.

Ken Norton was great, great opponent, young and in his prime, no doubt the best he could've fought but he lost.

Ken Norton II same like the first fight but Ali got the decision this time in a razor close fight, good for Ali

Joe Frazier II Frazier was past prime and was coming off a devastating KO loss to George Foreman, still Ali struggled with him.

George Foreman Biggest win of his career and the biggest upset in the history of the sport, no question a terrific win for Ali.

Ron Lyle, good opponent for Ali, Lyle was young and in his prime but he was coming off a loss to Jimmy Young and he didn't have any names on his record prior to the fight with Ali, and after the fight he didn't accomplish much either.

Jimmy Young was 17-4-2 going into the fight, he was a good fighter but he didn't beat anybody of note before the fight with Ali and he gave Ali a good fight for 15 rounds.

Joe Frazier 3, Frazier was clearly past it in this one and he still gave Ali hell for 14 rounds, Ali was going to quit but Frazier did it first, great fight but Frazier was clearly past prime.

Leon Spinks had 7 pro fights, Ali was unfortunately out of prime too and he lost

Leon Spinks 2 again Spinks didn't have much experience and the fight set record in the number of clinches.

Larry Holmes great opponent and an ATG, Ali gets full credit for fighting him even though he lost.

So to me the prime tough opponents he faced were Frazier 1 (loss), Ken Norton (loss), George Foreman, and Larry Holmes (loss and it shouldn't have happened in the first place).

Floyd has some good names on his resume too, Corrales was in his prime and was undefeated, beat a lot of good names before and after the fight with Floyd, Castillo was good and young and went on to beat good names after the fight with Floyd, Ricky Hatton was undefeated and he was still in his prime, JMM was a comeback fight after a 2 year layoff and he absolutely dominated, Mosley was old but was coming off the biggest KO win of his career against Margarito, the guy who people said Floyd ducked, Canelo was in his prime and he was the undefeated bigger guy who was supposed to beat Floyd, Maidana was at his peak coming off the biggest win of his career against Adrien Broner and of course beating Manny Pacquiao EASILY was the icing on the cake.

Floyd's biggest win was with an easy, one dimensional, reckless, make a lot of mistakes, 5 losses, one armed fighter. and that was with the help of a known PED peddler, USADA, NSAC, Referee, and the judges.

What was dave moretti watching?

Two judges with identical score for all 12 rounds.

NSAC personnel who don't know what was red and what was blue.

yeah he's TBE.

[Sweden2716]

Floyd, sorry but you do not make my top 20, I have followed boxing since 1968 and you at your best against the following fighters at their best around your weight class you loose to: Hearns, Leonard, Armstrong and Duran, no doubt.

[Sweden2716]

Also, Floyd you would have problems style wise with Vernon Forrest and Marlon Starling, you probably would eek out close decisions but I would not bet on it. A young Jose Napoles might have even beat you, but I give you the nod. Benitez you would outpoint.

[b00g13man]

Floyd's biggest win was with an easy, one dimensional, reckless, make a lot of mistakes, 5 losses, one armed fighter. and that was with the help of a known PED peddler, USADA, NSAC, Referee, and the judges.

What was dave moretti watching?

Two judges with identical score for all 12 rounds.

NSAC personnel who don't know what was red and what was blue.

yeah he's TBE.

[Sweden2716]

I need to apologize to another great defensive fighter that would have been no worse than a 50 - 50 fight against Floyd, Pernell Whitaker accept my apologies for leaving you out, I believe at your best you would outpoint Floyd.

[Rath]

Floyd, sorry but you do not make my top 20, I have followed boxing since 1968 and you at your best against the following fighters at their best around your weight class you loose to: Hearns, Leonard, Armstrong and Duran, no doubt.

Floyd fans with their logics would simply says you DKSAB