Duran's place amongst the 4... Over ranked?

[nacho daddy]

Duran was already the future hall of famer when he came up to face Leonard. He beat a prime Leonard toe to toe in a close decision. In the rematch Leonard admitted to having the fight scheduled as soon as possible because he knew Duran had major weight issues. Duran struggled and barely made weight. Leonard outclassed and controlled the distance against a already somewhat defeated Duran. No one really know's exactly why he quit, either it was because he was fed up with being "outclassed" by a guy who was running or he just felt outmatched.

Hearns lost at Welterweight against Leonard by TKO although he was way ahead on the score cards. Hearns then moved up and iced Duran in 2. From there he challenged Hagler and had him hurt bad multiple times in the fight. The fight was almost stopped too because of the gash on Haglers face. Hagler feeling the urgency caught, hurt and finished Hearns.

Benitez was a master boxer and a bigger man standing around 5'10. He was a defensive wiz but wasn't able to overtake Leonard. When he fought Hearns his defensive ability gave him a chance but Thomas was too rangy and powerful making Benitez lose a UD.

Hagler was the middleweight kingpin and would fight anyone. He waited for years for Leonard and pole axed the guy (Hearns) who iced Duran in 2. He would also fight Duran who came up from 154 in which Roberto gave him a quite competitive fight. Leonard would end up sealing the legacy by beating Hagler in a very very controversial decision. Pretty much by running and stealing rounds with quick flashy combos.

Duran was bar none the best lightweight the world had ever seen. Leonard was arguably the best welterweight ever, You could make a case for Hearns being the best jr Middleweight, and many say Hagler is the best Middelweight champion ever.

Hagler fight anyone??? hahahah as long as they were LW.WW or JM never moved out of MW. haggler would have to knock out spinks at LH and decision frazier or ali to come close to Duran

[mneronava2k]

again i'm not speaking of his resume in the lower weights ... he was an ATG. I'm saying when ranked amongst the 4 he is held in a higher regard than all except Leonard...

Well, you're framing a question without allowing context to give you your answer. He's part of the "4 horsemen" because they all fought eachother. But, his resume exists independent of the fights with those guys, those guys bank their resume on the fights with one another. So, the premise of your question is flawed. Duran would still be Duran. His fights with those guys are just a teastment of how game he was. Success among those opponents doesn't really mad. It's an unfair comparison at the end of the day. You can't say any of those guys names without mentioning Duran. Duran (besides Leonard) exists without them

[soul_survivor]

Well, you're framing a question without allowing context to give you your answer. He's part of the "4 horsemen" because they all fought eachother. But, his resume exists independent of the fights with those guys, those guys bank their resume on the fights with one another. So, the premise of your question is flawed. Duran would still be Duran. His fights with those guys are just a teastment of how game he was. Success among those opponents doesn't really mad. It's an unfair comparison at the end of the day. You can't say any of those guys names without mentioning Duran. Duran (besides Leonard) exists without them

I don't think what you're saying is entirely accurate. Duran had an exceptional run as LW champ, there is literally no doubt about it. At 135, he was as fierce and hard hitting as they come, possebly the most animalistic lightweight of all time, definitely the greatest champion in the division's history. Many felt that he was the fighter of the decade in the 1970s...but I just think it was a counter culture argument, cos most of the mainstream would pick Ali, meaning if you were a boxing fan you had to be different or more knowledgeable. But whatever, Duran would be in any top 3 for the decade.

Having said all that, Duran's achievements in the 80s, that win over Leonard, the fight with Hagler and an eventual title in the mw division really elevated Duran into the rarefied air of the top 5 or 10 ATGs. His place would not be so sacred if didn't hold those wins or have those competitions. Imagine Duran retiring without a welterweight crown.

Of course there are certain damages to his legacy too, No Mas, destruction at the hands of Hearns, losses to some less than stellar opponents.

[brickcityboxing]

I don't think what you're saying is entirely accurate. Duran had an exceptional run as LW champ, there is literally no doubt about it. At 135, he was as fierce and hard hitting as they come, possebly the most animalistic lightweight of all time, definitely the greatest champion in the division's history. Many felt that he was the fighter of the decade in the 1970s...but I just think it was a counter culture argument, cos most of the mainstream would pick Ali, meaning if you were a boxing fan you had to be different or more knowledgeable. But whatever, Duran would be in any top 3 for the decade.

Having said all that, Duran's achievements in the 80s, that win over Leonard, the fight with Hagler and an eventual title in the mw division really elevated Duran into the rarefied air of the top 5 or 10 ATGs. His place would not be so sacred if didn't hold those wins or have those competitions. Imagine Duran retiring without a welterweight crown.

Of course there are certain damages to his legacy too, No Mas, destruction at the hands of Hearns, losses to some less than stellar opponents.

You're right ... If he retired before the Leonard fight which was supposedly towards the end of his (first?) prime. He would've been looked at one of the best to ever do it at those weights and a hell of a figther... those fights between the 4 are the ones he's most known for but he lost most of those fights that's what I have trouble wrapping my head around. The Iran Barkley win was seriously impressive though.

[brickcityboxing]

because he was the greatest lightweight ever prior to moving up and fighting those guys from ww to MW.

duran didn't just "do stuff in the lower weight classes." you clearly don't know much about his career if that's how you characterize it. he was the greatest lightweight ever. he had unreal power at the weight, an iron chin, and high level skills.

I read his bio I know quite a bit about him... poor choice of words I was trying to get to the point of what he did later. and I think there can be arguments for other greatest lightweights ever but that's for another thread