Is a Champion still a Champion if?

[The1God]

That was the problem people had with having Vitali as the "champ": he hadn't necessarily proved that he was the best fighter in the division. The problem is that, beyond some weak fighers, DK messes everything up with his stranglehold over the top contenders. He parades around a bunch of so-so guys and calls them champions, yet he won't put any of them up against Vitali except weaker guys that have little chance of beating him, like Rachman.

After Hasim's last fight, I agree with this match-up. Hasim did beat Lewis, and he looked great in his last fight. Would I rather see VK fight another belt holder? YES. But this is just Don King hoping he can control the HW division. DK protects his assets well, too well sometimes.

[Bryght]

depends on each individual situation.
Often it is said Lennox lewis ducked Chris Byrd and John Ruiz, which really I find a bit of a no brainer, he didnt duck them they werent financially viable fights to anybody (tv co's lewis, promoters) compared to Holyfield / tysons of the world.

Actually, back in 1992 during a promotion involving the so-called heavyweight championship tournament, Rid**** Bowe was not happy with the WBC mandatory which he was saddled with so he dumped their title into a trashcan rather than defend it against Lennox Lewis. Bowe said that there were more lucrative fights out there and his career wasn't going to be mandated by an organization who would put anyone as their top contender.

Lewis said that Bowe was a coward and that Bowe dumped the title in order to duck him. Bowe said it was a smart business decision.

Fast forward to July of 2000...Lennox Lewis is stripped of the WBA heavyweight title for refusing to fight mandatory contender John Ruiz. Now, fast forward to September 2002 where Lewis avoids a potential distasterous match with Chris Byrd by vacating the IBF heavyweight belt. Of course, Lennox Lewis says that both instances were "business" decisions.

The same thing that Rid**** Bowe said in 1992 and Lennox called him a "coward".

A duck is a duck and real champions don't duck opponents.

[theironone]

A duck is a duck.[/QUOTE]


Unless it's a chicken

[Floydmayweather]

Yes, if he is the undisupted champion he sometimes calls the shots. I.E. Bernard Hopkins.

[Bryght]

Yes, if he is the undisupted champion he sometimes calls the shots. I.E. Bernard Hopkins.

Interesting quote since Lewis' first title (the WBC version) was plucked out of a trashcan handed to him while he was on a beach in Jamaica. That's what we in the business call a "paper champion". He was never undisputed. Lummox Lewis' legacy will always be ripe with controversy, beating up old, washed-up fighters and dodging the challenges of some of the contenders.

Oh, and Bernard Hopkins did exactly what Don King told him to do up until the beginning of 2004 when his contract expired with DK Promotions. Remember Morrade Hakkar? C'mon! Hopkins didn't want to defend against that guy! Hakkar was a nobody, yet somehow was ranked #1. There were better fights out there, but he had no choice due to promotional stipulations. So, don't feed me the Hopkins line unless you've done your homework.

Enough said...end of discussion.

[Floydmayweather]

Hum interesting.

[Sir_Jose]

Actually, back in 1992 during a promotion involving the so-called heavyweight championship tournament, Rid**** Bowe was not happy with the WBC mandatory which he was saddled with so he dumped their title into a trashcan rather than defend it against Lennox Lewis. Bowe said that there were more lucrative fights out there and his career wasn't going to be mandated by an organization who would put anyone as their top contender.

Lewis said that Bowe was a coward and that Bowe dumped the title in order to duck him. Bowe said it was a smart business decision.

Fast forward to July of 2000...Lennox Lewis is stripped of the WBA heavyweight title for refusing to fight mandatory contender John Ruiz. Now, fast forward to September 2002 where Lewis avoids a potential distasterous match with Chris Byrd by vacating the IBF heavyweight belt. Of course, Lennox Lewis says that both instances were "business" decisions.

The same thing that Rid**** Bowe said in 1992 and Lennox called him a "coward".

A duck is a duck and real champions don't duck opponents.

I think you need to go brush up on your boxing history because that is NOT what happend..

In 1992 HBO paid a ton of money to get the 4 best heavyweight in the world in a tournement to unify the belts.

Fighters were
Lennox Lewis
Evander Holyfdield
Razor Ruddock
Rid**** Bowe.

The first round match ups were.
Holyfield vs Bowe.
Lewis vs Rudock.


They all signed the same contract. They would fight and then the winners would fight eachother early next year.

Lewis and Bowe both won. Bowe pulled out of a contract he signed to fight Lewis.

Bowe did not take on better fighters or go for "more luctrative fights" instead he opted to fight Micheal Dokes and Jesse Furgeson two underserving fighters.

The difference between what Lewis and what Bowe did was Lewis went after better fighters not easier fighters.

He gave up the WBA belt because Akinwande was his #1 a fighter he already beat. Akinwande was going to fight Holyfield for the vancant belt, but he got sick and Ruiz was put in as #1 because Don King bought it for him.

Lewis gave up the WBA belt to fight Micheal Grant the guy thought to be the second best heavyweight on the planet at the time and a Lewis/Grant fight was by far the best fight at the time.

Lewis gave up the IBF belt to get the fight with Tyson done. Lewis/Tyson was by far the biggest heavyweight fight of the past 15 years.

One guy gave up his belts for easier fights and the other gave up belts to make better fights.

and no, sorry no one thought John Ruiz and Chris Byrd were dangerous fights

[Torino]

IMO - there is no excuse for dropping a belt. There is plenty of time to make money fights between mandatory defenses. It is the boxers choice to fight only his mandatory opponents and fight only once a year. I don't buy the monetary excuse.

IMO - when a boxers gives up a belt, they are crapping on ancient sport that was originally based on pride, courage, integrity and dignity. Boxers fought for these reasons alone. This is the spirit of the sport.

IMO - nowadays money plays a role in the sport, but that role should end at mandatory defense of a title. If you decide to be Champion based solely on money, you don't deserve to be called a champion.

[Bryght]

Agreed!

So, a duck is a duck and Jose is the one who needs a history lesson. The end.

[TheRealDunnagan]

It's good to see old 40+ year old fighters that have been fighting for like 25+ years in the ring like Hopkins speak correctly. Hopkins speaks like he's never taken a large shot. Then you get guys like Terry Norris or Bowe in there and they make boxing look bad.