Is a Champion still a Champion if?

[Torino]

If A boxer dodges other boxers and gives up Championship belts, Should he still be considered a Champion?

IMO - I find this to be very disrespectful to what spirit of the championship represents.

[J !]

depends on each individual situation.
Often it is said Lennox lewis ducked Chris Byrd and John Ruiz, which really I find a bit of a no brainer, he didnt duck them they werent financially viable fights to anybody (tv co's lewis, promoters) compared to Holyfield / tysons of the world.

Other side is the politics, Vitali cant fight Byrds or Ruiz cos King wont let them fight him. So if Byrd comes out and calls out vitali is the ukrainian ducking Byrd, of course he isnt.


Its often more complicated than we think, I read "a year at the fights" by Thomas Hauser whilst on hols and in it he refers to the rematch between Lewis and Rahmann, man you cannot believe the bull**** people were trying to pull in that, King, Rahmann, Newman it was quite astounding the levels of underhand tactics and contract negotiation and court appearances it took to get the rematch clause implemented.

So its not as simple as people think, its not just a case of does the fighter want to fight the other guy, its all about promoters, managers, tv contracts, the actual organsiations themselves, WBC/IBF etc etc they can be as underhand as anyone as we know.

Ssdly this will never be sorted out until we have some kind of overseeing world authority such as FIFA in soccer, the RFU in rugby, the ICC in cricket etc etc, one all powerful committee whose final decision is binding.

until this happens we will always have to put up with the best not always fighting the best im afraid.

[marvdave]

If A boxer dodges other boxers and gives up Championship belts, Should he still be considered a Champion?

IMO - I find this to be very disrespectful to what spirit of the championship represents.

here you go again..I wonder who you might be referring to

I think they should still be considered champ only if it suits Torino's agenda

[J !]

are you talking lewis torino? if so you need to get a life stop nuthugging VK and learn more about what goes on the game. Very naive if you think its as simple as that.

[Mr. Ryan]

I believe Joe Calzaghe is still champion even though he has ducked some fighters, but his championship is abit tainted.

[The1God]

IMHO, Belts are idiotic. Just look at the HW division. Until the top guys fight each other, we can't have a champion. Most boxing experts say that VK is the champ, has he beat Ruiz? and Byrd beat him. Until they fight, there is no champion. I listen to Ring magazine. These santioning bodies are just greedy mo-fos that can be bribed. Don King has had many of them eating from his hand.

[Bombardier]

IMHO, Belts are idiotic. Just look at the HW division. Until the top guys fight each other, we can't have a champion. Most boxing experts say that VK is the champ, has he beat Ruiz? and Byrd beat him. Until they fight, there is no champion. I listen to Ring magazine. These santioning bodies are just greedy mo-fos that can be bribed. Don King has had many of them eating from his hand.

Do you agree with Ring putting Vitali as heavyweight champ? They've taken some heat for that because he rought their #2 contender to get the title, not their #1. According to their rules they will make exceptions in cases like this sometimes but that doesn't stop the controversy.

At first I was against them putting Vitali at the top, but I don't think it's that unreasonable. Too bad a fight with #1 Byrd isn't going to happen anytime soon.

[The1God]

Do you agree with Ring putting Vitali as heavyweight champ? They've taken some heat for that because he rought their #2 contender to get the title, not their #1. According to their rules they will make exceptions in cases like this sometimes but that doesn't stop the controversy.

At first I was against them putting Vitali at the top, but I don't think it's that unreasonable. Too bad a fight with #1 Byrd isn't going to happen anytime soon.

I guess I have to pick him as number one.... Does that mean he can beat anybody in the HW division, maybe not. I think Byrd would give him problems, regardless of their first fight, Byrd has improved since then. I think the HW division consists of Moe, Larry and Curly. No domenate force. If VK really wants to be the champ, he needs to be the Undisputed champ, then he can tell all the belt organizations to kiss his ass. Just like Lewis did. When your on top like Lewis, you call the shots. Just because somebody strips you of your belt doesn't count as a loss. If you are on top, the only way down is to be beat. There is nobody on the summit of the HW division right now, we just measure who is closest. BHop is on the top, Kostya is on top etc....

[Bombardier]

I guess I have to pick him as number one.... Does that mean he can beat anybody in the HW division, maybe not. I think Byrd would give him problems, regardless of their first fight, Byrd has improved since then. I think the HW division consists of Moe, Larry and Curly. No domenate force. If VK really wants to be the champ, he needs to be the Undisputed champ, then he can tell all the belt organizations to kiss his ass. Just like Lewis did. When your on top like Lewis, you call the shots. Just because somebody strips you of your belt doesn't count as a loss. If you are on top, the only way down is to be beat. There is nobody on the summit of the HW division right now, we just measure who is closest. BHop is on the top, Kostya is on top etc....

That was the problem people had with having Vitali as the "champ": he hadn't necessarily proved that he was the best fighter in the division. The problem is that, beyond some weak fighers, DK messes everything up with his stranglehold over the top contenders. He parades around a bunch of so-so guys and calls them champions, yet he won't put any of them up against Vitali except weaker guys that have little chance of beating him, like Rachman.

[Mr. Ryan]

I think Byrd would give him problems, regardless of their first fight, Byrd has improved since then.

I dunno, I think he's gotten worse.

he needs to be the Undisputed champ, then he can tell all the belt organizations to kiss his ass.

I think getting their belts is him conforming to their ways. Plus, King will never give Ruiz and Byrd to Klitschko.