ther rise of defensive domination and the decline of entertainment-a thesis by daggum

[Dr Rumack]

There are a few defensive oriented fighters but I don't think it's become the dominant paradigm by any stretch of the imagination.

Sure, you have guys like Floyd, Rigo, Ward etc who nullify the opponents offence before they think about anything else. But you also have Manny, Chocolatitio, Kovalev, Canelo, Golovkin etc who are plenty effective as offensive fighters.

The tolerance for clinching has gone a little too far alright, but all in all I don't think the sport is in a bad place.

[Rockin']

Clinching and holding, which is against the rules and therefore, strictly speaking, a foul, has been part of the sport for as long as I've been watching it.

Some refs allow less of it than others before dishing out warnings. And I've noticed that A side fighters are generally allowed more leeway than B siders in that respect.

Ducking below the belt is something that hardly ever used to happen without a warning being given, but is often ignored by referees nowadays. Same thing with turning away from the opponent to take the sting out of punches, or avoid them completely.

I think the reason "defensive fouls" like these are tolerated is that they don't end fights or cause injuries to the fighters, whereas "offensive fouls" can do both.

ducking 'below the belt' is technically not a foul.

[Guest]

daggum should apply to be a referee. he cares a lot and wants to change things.

no hugging or low blows in daggums fights.

maybe after a while he can get a plum job on tv for a ward fight!

[SlySlickSmooth]

You do know a thesis.........has a thesis statement right? Or are you as ignorant in the forms of literature as you are in the forms of boxing.

He's as ignorant in the forms of literature as Mayweather.

[sicko]

You can do us a favor and Stop Watching so we won't have to get more **** threads like this. Nobody is forcing anybody to watch just like nobody forced anybody to pay $99 last night to watch Mayweather Pick Pacquiao Apart.

No fighters should fight the same in boxing, who told some of you that guys are all suppose to fight the same and just slug it out for your entertainment. That is not Boxing!

I been a Boxing fans before the rise and now FALL of Pacquiao and I will still be here talking boxing going into the next generation of boxing. But I don't see anybody being as SKILLED as Mayweather defensively anytime soon so the next generation could actually very entertaining because it won't be 1 Guy who is just head and shoulders above the rest like Mayweather was during his ERA

[Phenom]

Clinching is not a foul excessive clinching can be but that's subjective little bit of a reach comparing it to low blows and headbuts

[arraamis]

You do know a thesis.........has a thesis statement right? Or are you as ignorant in the forms of literature as you are in the forms of boxing.

This just keeps getting better and better ..........

This thread is not about floyd-pac so please don't talk about it unless you are citing examples from that fight. This thread will be discussing the uneven relationship between defensive fouls and offensive fouls and how defensive fouls have become a common part of boxing strategy. So my question is is it really great defense if it's not even legal?

example: If a fighter keeps landing low blows over and over he is punished(unless his name is danny garcia or mares) yet when a fighter continually clinches or bends below the waist(both things are illegal) he rarely if ever is punished. This inherently gives the advantage to any fighter who is willing to go outside the rules and do these kind of moves. Why is one foul(low blows) so harshly criticized while defensive fouls go ignored? Is it because we have been conditioned to accept them as "part of boxing" and why haven't low blows and other offensive fouls become a "part of boxing" Is it because fouls like low blows or thumbing someone in the eye can possibly have an effect on the outcome? don't defensive fouls also have an outcome on the fight? they completely disrupt and stop the other fighters offensive attack. I would argue that the refs failure to take action against these fouls has a direct outcome on the fight as well.

If you look at the sheer numbers guys like wlad, ward, and floyd commit these defensive fouls sometimes over a hundred times per fight. why would they keep doing it if it didn't help them? yet if you had a fighter throwing a hundred low blows they would be dq'd almost for sure. Also when scoring a fight people seem to give these fighters who commit defensive fouls credit under the defensive category which is puzzling since you would not give someone clean punching credit if he was landing low blows. why the disconnect between the two?

These unpunished fouls also affect the entertainment value of a fight. A fighter who can disrupt the offensive rhythm of his opponent by clinching/bending makes the fight very boring because there is no flow to the fight(which is why they do it) The fight is essentially only fought when the guy committing defensive fouls wants it to be fought because he can just stop the action whenever he pleases. If boxing wants to grow its fan base and actually keep viewers they need to seriously look at enforcing the rules on both sides of the coin offensively and defensively. I don't think its too much to ask to simply follow the rules because following the rules would make for much better fights.

Tips for Writing Your Thesis Statement

1. Determine what kind of paper you are writing:

An analytical paper breaks down an issue or an idea into its component parts, evaluates the issue or idea, and presents this breakdown and evaluation to the audience.

An expository (explanatory) paper explains something to the audience.

An argumentative paper makes a claim about a topic and justifies this claim with specific evidence. The claim could be an opinion, a policy proposal, an evaluation, a cause-and-effect statement, or an interpretation. The goal of the argumentative paper is to convince the audience that the claim is true based on the evidence provided.

If you are writing a text that does not fall under these three categories (e.g., a narrative), a thesis statement somewhere in the first paragraph could still be helpful to your reader.

2. Your thesis statement should be specific—it should cover only what you will discuss in your paper and should be supported with specific evidence.

3. The thesis statement usually appears at the end of the first paragraph of a paper.

4. Your topic may change as you write, so you may need to revise your thesis statement to reflect exactly what you have discussed in the paper.

[Dean_Razorback]

besides diego chaves, have you seen someone being dq for clinching? it sucks that the referees allow it so much

[IronDanHamza]

"It's a scientific fact that Mayweather will never fight Pacquaio" Daggum

[Elroy1]

LOL at OP and all simpletons on this thread.

The answer is obvious!

In the past, it was perfectly acceptable to have plodding feet, upright body and a head on a stick. It was perfectly acceptable to brawl and trade and be a punch bag because the punches were so weak and nobody was really athletic enough to bend around punches. It was not necessary to be evasive.

But as power, speed, agility developed it became increasingly dire for the boxer who had to sustain more vicious damage using the old punch bag methods of boxing.

All that changed circa 1980, when the idea was hit upon by chance that it just might be possible to hit your opponent whilst avoiding getting hit yourself!!

This was really a very exciting time for boxing and culminated in the guys like Wlad, Ward and Floyd you speak of today.

Phew! Just in the knick of time, the boxers were saved by this new school of self-protection.