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Soviet/Eastern European heavyweights dominating 60s/70s era? Myth Busted!
Some people are coming up with ridiculous ways to discredit past greats like Ali, Frazier, Foreman and other American heavyweights of their time. They do this by saying the only reason why they were dominating were because the Soviet boxers weren't allowed to box in the pros.
So I decided to look into this myth, which I find quite interesting.
First off, let's go to the amateur system of the day:
This is Joe Frazier in the Olympics '64 finals against Hans Huber of Germany.
As you can see - small gloves + no head guard.
Amateur boxing pre 1984 was very similar to professional boxing. Of course, the number of rounds were fewer and they gave standing counts, but they weren't as soft with the counts as they are in today's amateur boxing.
This meant a lot of guys in the amateurs were laid out.
Anyway, the point of this is that we can measure the highest ranked Soviet/eastern European fighters of their day by comparing them to the highest ranked American fighter of their day - in this case I'll be using the three musketeers of the 'golden era' Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier and George Foreman.
So, let's have a look at Muhammad Ali - though only a light heavyweight in his amateur days as a mere 18 years old.
He fought the highest ranked light heavyweight of the Soviet Union - Gennadiy Shatkov and didn't lose a round. In fact, he was hardly touched in the fight - and Shatkov was a 3 time gold medalist.
In the final he faced respectable Polish amateur Zbigniew Pietrzykowski, who he also beat for every single round.
Now, these were only light heavyweights though, so the next example will have a lot more relevance to today's boxing and especially boxing then.
Joe Frazier vs Vadim Yemelyanov
So the argument from one side is that Joe Frazier was too small to deal with a modern heavyweight - of course on top of the other argument that if the Soviet fighters were pro they would have dominated.
Yemelynov was 6'4 & 230 lbs. He was the number 1 ranked Soviet fighter. here's what happened:
[IMG][/IMG]
Safe to assume more rounds wouldn't have done wonders for Yemelynov who was getting tagged by Frazier's left hook and ultimately laid out.
This brings us to George Foreman, who was relatively untested by the time he came to the Olympics with roughly 20 amateur fights.
He defeated Polish #1 Lucjan Trela 4:1.
Foreman then proceeded to stop the tough #1 Soviet heavyweight, 6'3, 220 lbs Ionas Chepulis in the finals - giving him a Vitali-esque face in the process.
Here you go:
https://<iframe width="640" height="...reen></iframe>
Anyway, I don't see how anyone can make a sound argument that these Soviet fighters would have dominated the 60s and 70s when they lost quite badly against very green versions of the three fighters.
What are your thoughts?
So I decided to look into this myth, which I find quite interesting.
First off, let's go to the amateur system of the day:
This is Joe Frazier in the Olympics '64 finals against Hans Huber of Germany.
As you can see - small gloves + no head guard.
Amateur boxing pre 1984 was very similar to professional boxing. Of course, the number of rounds were fewer and they gave standing counts, but they weren't as soft with the counts as they are in today's amateur boxing.
This meant a lot of guys in the amateurs were laid out.
Anyway, the point of this is that we can measure the highest ranked Soviet/eastern European fighters of their day by comparing them to the highest ranked American fighter of their day - in this case I'll be using the three musketeers of the 'golden era' Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier and George Foreman.
So, let's have a look at Muhammad Ali - though only a light heavyweight in his amateur days as a mere 18 years old.
He fought the highest ranked light heavyweight of the Soviet Union - Gennadiy Shatkov and didn't lose a round. In fact, he was hardly touched in the fight - and Shatkov was a 3 time gold medalist.
In the final he faced respectable Polish amateur Zbigniew Pietrzykowski, who he also beat for every single round.
Now, these were only light heavyweights though, so the next example will have a lot more relevance to today's boxing and especially boxing then.
Joe Frazier vs Vadim Yemelyanov
So the argument from one side is that Joe Frazier was too small to deal with a modern heavyweight - of course on top of the other argument that if the Soviet fighters were pro they would have dominated.
Yemelynov was 6'4 & 230 lbs. He was the number 1 ranked Soviet fighter. here's what happened:
[IMG][/IMG]
Safe to assume more rounds wouldn't have done wonders for Yemelynov who was getting tagged by Frazier's left hook and ultimately laid out.
This brings us to George Foreman, who was relatively untested by the time he came to the Olympics with roughly 20 amateur fights.
He defeated Polish #1 Lucjan Trela 4:1.
Foreman then proceeded to stop the tough #1 Soviet heavyweight, 6'3, 220 lbs Ionas Chepulis in the finals - giving him a Vitali-esque face in the process.
Here you go:
https://<iframe width="640" height="...reen></iframe>
Anyway, I don't see how anyone can make a sound argument that these Soviet fighters would have dominated the 60s and 70s when they lost quite badly against very green versions of the three fighters.
What are your thoughts?
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