Perspective on Klit, and the HW division

[El-blanco]

The rest of the division sucks but wlad would be great in any era. He's totally dominating everyone. It seems like you're denigrating him because the division isn't great. If he was barely beating guys then you'd have a point.

[Jedi Vader]

He looked ok in his last fight, and he was obviously trying to make a good impression to HBO and the U.S. fans.

He wanted to finally deliver a decent performance, and he did.

It was a nice knockout.

But as I watched the fight, I shook my head and thought to myself 'how did HW boxing become so bad?'

The fact that Pulev was the number 1 contender, and was widely regarded as Klit's toughest test for a long time, just speaks volumes to me on how weak this division is.

Let's be brutally honest here.

Pulev showed heart but not much skill, waving his left like a wand, no movement whatsoever, dropping his right arm completely open for left hooks

he's not in any way a good fighter.

Klit had to excessively hold on to Pulev to avoid any exchanges. He was even rocked early by a light jab, showing his weak punch resistance.

Klit is an ok HW, but his competition is extremely weak.


Would Pulev have troubled many HW champs of the past?

I'll say no, definitely not.

So we can give credit to Klit for finally looking halfway decent, and coming in good shape at his age, and putting in an ok performance.

But this division is weak, and he did not beat a good fighter in his last fight.

His next fight is against a highly ranked contender in Byrant Jennings who only started boxing 5 years ago and is a full time mechanic by trade.

I watched his last fight against an out of shape Cuban and he did not look good. He only won because the opponent tired out and was deducted a point. Still even a draw would have been fair.

This guy is the highest ranked voluntary that Klit can face and is considered one of the top HWs in the world at the moment. This again speaks volumes on how bad the HW division currently is.


Thoughts?

Legendary post.

The current division is in a hilariously abysmal state.

[thebigkabosh]

The rest of the division sucks but wlad would be great in any era. He's totally dominating everyone. It seems like you're denigrating him because the division isn't great. If he was barely beating guys then you'd have a point.

The question then becomes then is this guy a good HW because he's just the best of a terrible bunch or because he truly is that good? It's hard to tell. Even against many of these opponents he has to engage in excessive illegal clinches because he doesn't have the stomach to trade with anyone.

He was knocked out by 3 HWs who were not great before he went on the run he has had in this era.

I do not think he could replicate the results he has achieved if he fought in a tougher era.

Do you really think he could have gone an entire decade undefeated throughout the 90s for example against the HW crop that included:

Rid**** Bowe
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Lenox Lewis
George Foreman
Michael Moorer
Ike Ibeabuchi
David Tua
Carl Williams
Tommy Morrison
Larry Holmes
Tim Witherspoon
Corrie Sanders
Razor Ruddock
Herbie Hide
Frank Bruno
Oliver McCall
Ray Mercer
Tony Tucker etc

[thebigkabosh]

The current division is in a hilariously abysmal state.

Indeed it is.

[BafanaBafana]

Ring rankings from 1991,1995, 2009 and 2015 (current rankings). In short, the division has not only gotten considerably weaker since the 90's, but it's also a lot weaker than it was in 2009.

1991:

1. Evander Holyfield
2. Mike Tyson
3. Rid**** Bowe
4. Razor Ruddock
5. Ray Mercer
6. George Foreman
7. Tim Witherspoon
8. Tony Tucker
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Michael Moorer

1995:

1. Rid**** Bowe
2. Lennox Lewis
3. Mike Tyson
4. Michael Moorer
5. Evander Holyfield
6. Bruce Seldon
7. Frank Bruno
8. George Foreman
9. Alexander Zolkin
10. Henry Akinwande

2009
Wladimir Klitschko, Champion

1. Vitali Klitschko
2. Alexander Povetkin
3. Eddie Chambers
4. Ruslan Chagaev
5. David Haye
6. Chris Arreola
7. Denis Boytsov
8. Nikolay Valuev
9. Alexander Dimitrenko
10. Tony Thompson

2015 (present)
Wladimir Klitschko, Champion

1. Alexander Povetkin
2. Deontay Wilder
3. Tyson Fury
4. Kubrat Pulev
5. Bryant Jennings
6. Bermane Stiverne
7. Vyacheslav Glazkov
8. Mike Perez
9. Chris Arreola
10. Ruslan Chagaev (shot)

[El-blanco]

He was knocked out by 3 HWs who were not great before he went on the run he has had in this era.



Rid**** Bowe-win
Mike Tyson-loss
Evander Holyfield-win
Lenox Lewis-loss
George Foreman-win
Michael Moorer-win
Ike Ibeabuchi-loss
David Tua-win
Carl Williams-win
Tommy Morrison-win
Larry Holmes-win
Tim Witherspoon-win
Corrie Sanders-lol
Razor Ruddock-win
Herbie Hide-win
Frank Bruno-win
Oliver McCall-win
Ray Mercer-win
Tony Tucker etc

I answered in your quote who I thought he'd beat and lose to, aside from ibeabuchi the others are some of the greatest ever, aside from sanders and ike, no shame in that. Ibeabuchis work rate, durability and power would pose too much issues for wlad. The other two I think are self explanatory. The only guy who I think might be an issue is McCall because of his durability, wlad might punch himself out like he did against purity. But if we're talking this version of wlad it's a 12 0 decision win.

As for his three losses, wlad punched himself out in the purity fight, I doubt even you believe he'd lose to him again. He screwed up and paid for it. Same thing in the Brewster fight, totally exhausted. He went from unloading on Brewster to a zombie in one round, it's one of the craziest turns in conditioning I've ever seen. The sanders fight he just got lit up, but in all of those fights he tried to get up and keep fighting. I don't think his heart should be questioned. Sure his style is unappealing sometimes but rewatch his younger years, he's one of the most exciting heavies ever. His destruction of monte Barrett is epic. He learned his lesson and now fights to guarantee victory and nobody has come close. I honestly don't remember the last time he lost a round, even against David haye, who I would say is as good as some of the guys on your list.

[daggum]

he's a cheat. if he played football he would be a patriot. actually in football they call holding as a penalty so he wouldn't even make the team.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

I answered in your quote who I thought he'd beat and lose to, aside from ibeabuchi the others are some of the greatest ever, aside from sanders and ike, no shame in that. Ibeabuchis work rate, durability and power would pose too much issues for wlad. The other two I think are self explanatory. The only guy who I think might be an issue is McCall because of his durability, wlad might punch himself out like he did against purity. But if we're talking this version of wlad it's a 12 0 decision win.

As for his three losses, wlad punched himself out in the purity fight, I doubt even you believe he'd lose to him again. He screwed up and paid for it. Same thing in the Brewster fight, totally exhausted. He went from unloading on Brewster to a zombie in one round, it's one of the craziest turns in conditioning I've ever seen. The sanders fight he just got lit up, but in all of those fights he tried to get up and keep fighting. I don't think his heart should be questioned. Sure his style is unappealing sometimes but rewatch his younger years, he's one of the most exciting heavies ever. His destruction of monte Barrett is epic. He learned his lesson and now fights to guarantee victory and nobody has come close. I honestly don't remember the last time he lost a round, even against David haye, who I would say is as good as some of the guys on your list.

Just watched the Barrett fight. Yes. Total destruction. Very impressive!

[Elroy1]

To the TS...

[Elroy1]

The Wladimir Klitschko from Samuel Peter fight, right through to today, superscribed on the 90's, would have dominated the entire era completely, suffering probably zero losses and no more than a couple of upset KO's at most. Basically exactly the same as he does in this era.

90's, 00's, 10's, are ALL comparable eras in terms of boxer quality and size.

Wladimir Klitschko has now fought more decent opponents than what Lennox had and would be a slight favourite over Lenny In reckon, Wlad just being a slightly longer and stronger, more athletic version who is sharper and more disciplined.

I've said it before but...

Thompson beats up Tyson,
Chagaev outboxes Golota,
Haye destroys Grant,
Chambers wins every round against Tua,
Ibragimov has bashed Briggs and Holyfield

and so on...

the 80's, 90's, 00's and 10's are the ONLY eras worth considering when we speak of era strength, anything prior to this was what I call a "pre-professional" era.

This could be the strongest era, or atleast very close to it anyway.

An era consists of thousands of fights and hundreds of boxers. There's no way anybody could POSSIBLY watch all several thousand fights, remember and analysed all of them and declare that THIS set of boxers is better than THAT set of boxers...

But there IS a way to tell very simply...

EVERY ERA, IS BETTER THAN THE ERA THAT PRECEDED IT, BECAUSE BOXERS GET BETTER AND BETTER IN GENERAL FROM ONE GENERATION TO THE NEXT.

There can be stagnation (things might not have improved much since the 90's) and you can have special exceptions in times of disasters (the reason why war and post-war eras like the Marciano era were so weak). But things always evolve.

Wladimir's victory over Povetkin, Pulev and Haye in particular in this decade would have been considered proof of Lennox's superiority. These are SUPERB boxers.

TS =