Ruddock/Morrison/Golota all looked as good as GGG does now prior to their downfall.

[JasonBoxing]

Are you suggesting that Lenox Lewis and way past-prime Tyson are on the same level as Hagler and Monzon?

Tyson wasn't way past prime. He was slightly past prime. This wasn't post prison Tyson. The early 90's version would have KTFO current Wladimir.

Lennox Lewis vs Marvin Hagler? We are talking about a top 5 HW against a top 1-3 Middle Weight. There is a gap and the edge belongs to Hagler but the 'edge' isn't as wide as you would think.

Monzon and Tyson? Both top 10 in their respective divisions.


Get out of my thread if you think there is a 'huge gap' between Lewis/Tyson/Hagler/Monzon. Because if you do? You are letting your anti heavyweight bias cloud your judgement.


Lewis and Tyson are capable of beating the two greatest Heavys of all times in Ali and Louis. In fact, many people will favor Lewis and Tyson over Joe Louis.

[JasonBoxing]

What does American have to do with it? I'm an American and a GGG fan. I like Lomachenko (oops also not an American); am a big Donaire fan (I think he should retire); and I was impressed completely by Walters (he's not American).

Walters is African-American.

[DoktorSleepless]

Not true at all Morrison struggled against Carl Williams and Joe Hipp. That would be like GGG struggling against Stevens and Rubio( I don't think Hipp and Williams are as good). GGG has been destroying that level of fighter

Or like struggling against Kassim Ouma.

[Citizen Koba]

Go back and look at the fights of Ruddock/Morrison/Golota prior to them fighting Tyson/Mercer/Lewis.. They were all were very talented big power punchers that was schooling everyone. Talent was real. Skills was there. The difference is that they faced two legit ATG'S and a legit Hall of Fame caliber fighter.

GGG isn't even as talented as Golota was but he will go down as the much greater fighter because there isn't a MW Lennox Lewis waiting for him. This is just the 'luck of an era'.......Sometimes you are known as a greater fighter than you should be due to your era. Sometimes you are known as lesser than you should be.


I'm not bashing GGG or Ruddock/Morrison/Golota. They all have superb talent. The difference is that the 3 90's heavyweights had to go against elite level fighters. I doubt GGG ever will. Unless he goes up against Ward that is. Even than, Ward isn't anywhere in the same ball park as a Tyson or Lewis.

Is there some point to your thread? It sounds like just a long-winded way of telling us you think Golovkins pretty good but not really elite.

[musiol]

Tyson wasn't way past prime. He was slightly past prime. This wasn't post prison Tyson. The early 90's version would have KTFO current Wladimir.

Lennox Lewis vs Marvin Hagler? We are talking about a top 5 HW against a top 1-3 Middle Weight. There is a gap and the edge belongs to Hagler but the 'edge' isn't as wide as you would think.

Monzon and Tyson? Both top 10 in their respective divisions.


Get out of my thread if you think there is a 'huge gap' between Lewis/Tyson/Hagler/Monzon. Because if you do? You are letting your anti heavyweight bias cloud your judgement.


Lewis and Tyson are capable of beating the two greatest Heavys of all times in Ali and Louis. In fact, many people will favor Lewis and Tyson over Joe Louis.

It's always the same Lewis Tyson bla bla at end ov the day holyfields resume sh@ts on both and he is the only man that fought bowe x3 Lewis x2 Tyson x2 yeah he lost more but IMO he beat Lewis in rematch n well he was on that big slips slide proven in everything he did after that Lewis win over Tyson is a complete farce so Lewis only really beat old Holyfield once IMO the first fight n a young kilt Tyson beat knw 1 but wrecked b standard fighters good to watch thou totally

[King_]

My Marquez posts destroy your entire posting career. I lowered myself to this current level because I realize NSB can't even talk to me when I post like this:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=660282

or when I'm talking about Pernell.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=661095

Read those opening posts if you have the ability to actually do so without exploding in frustration at the lack of understanding you will no doubt have.


I can't talk about foot work or boxing skills with this website. I have to lower myself to a more 'NSB' level.

You think NSB can hang with this?

"""this brings us to our next elements: Lateral Movement and Stepping With/Into Punches.

Prime Floyd has superb lateral movement.But Whitakers was superior.Floyd's lateral movement was to take away a punching angle and set up an ambush, but Whitaker's lateral movement was fixed into his offense. It is difficult for a southpaw to consistently land a jab without turning into it, and none has ever done it better than Whitaker. Whitaker's default was to circle while jabbing, constantly circling his opponent and inviting his offense while scoring with his own, elegantly dancing around his opponent without wastefully or skittishly running from him (most of the time, anyway).


And while Floyd is a master of befuddling an opponent when cornered and escaping the ropes, Whitaker is not one who was rushed there quite as often. No other fighter since 1965 has been able to circle an opponent so completely while still maintaining their offense. While Whitaker is almost or just as capable of disengaging and ambushing an opponent as Floyd is, he unquestionably trumps Floyd's ability to maintain control in range while side-stepping and pivoting into his punches and recovering position after throwing without ever leaving the center of the ring.
""




Think again. NSB can only hang with easy to understand threads like the one I started.

Just wanted to let you know I didn't read this post.



You're a **** poster. Sorry.


(P.S. I can make a legit case for Wlad being the GOAT HW when it's all said and done)

[low blows]

Walters is African-American.

He is Jamaican. If you want to get technical he is from the Americas and is of predominately African ancestry. But to say he is African-American is a stretch.

[low blows]

Or like struggling against Kassim Ouma.

Did he hit the deck and come within a punch or two of losing to ESPN level fighters? You can't compare the two situations.

[DoktorSleepless]

You can't compare the two situations.

Sure I can, and I did. Also similar in that they struggled until the stoppage.

[bklynboy]

Tyson wasn't way past prime. He was slightly past prime. This wasn't post prison Tyson. The early 90's version would have KTFO current Wladimir.

Lennox Lewis vs Marvin Hagler? We are talking about a top 5 HW against a top 1-3 Middle Weight. There is a gap and the edge belongs to Hagler but the 'edge' isn't as wide as you would think.

Monzon and Tyson? Both top 10 in their respective divisions.


Get out of my thread if you think there is a 'huge gap' between Lewis/Tyson/Hagler/Monzon. Because if you do? You are letting your anti heavyweight bias cloud your judgement.


Lewis and Tyson are capable of beating the two greatest Heavys of all times in Ali and Louis. In fact, many people will favor Lewis and Tyson over Joe Louis.

I think Monson and Hagler are TOP3 / TOP 5 Middleweights. I have a hard time putting either LL or Tyson in the TOP 10. Both are in the 11-20 range for me. Of course that depends on the day. On some days I would have each at around number 10.

Secondly the middleweight has, historically, been much deeper than the heavyweight division.