Did Andy Lee make Haymon/Kid Chocolate look foolish?

[Scipio2009]

Most of these boxers had idealistic aspirations when they entered the sport, ie, win titles, fight the best of the best... Until they meet Haymon, "Forget that crap, doe. You can have all those things by fighting cab drivers."

You look throughout the history of boxing and you see a lot of the fighters, who only wanted to "win titles, fight the best of the best..." end up in positions where they wish they were at least cab drivers.

Haymon's pitch is probably pretty simple: "No one is going to fight forever; while you're in this physically taxing sport, let's do everything in our power to put you into a position where you can leave it, however you leave it, which as much as you can, so that you and your family have a fighting chance when you hang the gloves up."

The days of fighters just being pugs, while promoters walk away with 80% of the take are over.

[Eastcoast]

You look throughout the history of boxing and you see a lot of the fighters, who only wanted to "win titles, fight the best of the best..." end up in positions where they wish they were at least cab drivers.

Haymon's pitch is probably pretty simple: "No one is going to fight forever; while you're in this physically taxing sport, let's do everything in our power to put you into a position where you can leave it, however you leave it, which as much as you can, so that you and your family have a fighting chance when you hang the gloves up."

The days of fighters just being pugs, while promoters walk away with 80% of the take are over.

The situation that just played out speaks differently. Quillin turned down career money and lessened his current earning potential all because of 'Haymon's' personal interests. Even if Pete got that $500,000 under the table and even if he would've had to give up about 40% of his $1.4mill, he lost $200k up front and that's not accounting for his title & status (assuming he'd have beaten Korobov). Whatever plans Al has for him, Quillin could've still met after that fight.

[Beercules]

Man I'm so happy for Andy Lee.

The real Kid Chocolate is turning in his grave. Peter is a giant ******.

[Scipio2009]

The situation that just played out speaks differently. Quillin turned down career money and lessened his current earning potential all because of 'Haymon's' personal interests. Even if Pete got that $500,000 under the table and even if he would've had to give up about 40% of his $1.4mill, he lost $200k up front and that's not accounting for his title & status (assuming he'd have beaten Korobov). Whatever plans Al has for him, Quillin could've still met after that fight.

-Quillin, on the advice of Haymon, turned down fighting for Roc Nation Sports.
-Showtime is still more than willing to air Quillin fights.
-Quillin vs Jacobs is a fight that Showtime is more than interested in paying for.
-Quillin-Jacobs is likely to put near $1m into Quillin's pocket
-Peter Quillin is still a top 3 middleweight in the world

His misses out on eye-popping money, but he still maintains his relationship with Showtime, he stays involved in fights that Showtime is interested in, and he continues to make good money doing it.

In case you forgot, Roc Nation Sports has no TV relationship with anyone, a familial relationship with only one marquee venue, and no real infrastructure to even put together an even three-fight card.

[krazyn8tive]

Quillin and Stevenson are pretty much mirroring each other's careers all the way down the toilet

[Eastcoast]

-Quillin, on the advice of Haymon, turned down fighting for Roc Nation Sports.
-Showtime is still more than willing to air Quillin fights.
-Quillin vs Jacobs is a fight that Showtime is more than interested in paying for.
-Quillin-Jacobs is likely to put near $1m into Quillin's pocket
-Peter Quillin is still a top 3 middleweight in the world

His misses out on eye-popping money, but he still maintains his relationship with Showtime, he stays involved in fights that Showtime is interested in, and he continues to make good money doing it.

In case you forgot, Roc Nation Sports has no TV relationship with anyone, a familial relationship with only one marquee venue, and no real infrastructure to even put together an even three-fight card.

The Quillin card had HBO backing and was only ment to be a one fight deal for Quillin. He had no further obligations with Roc Nations afterwards, he would've been able to maintain his Showtime relationship due to Haymon.

Passing up the fight from this past September is a complete void in his career. Aside from the money, aside from him keeping his belt, he could've received a huge bump in his popularity. There was going to be a big media push for this event as it was Roc Nation's start up and he would've been the center of it. It would've taken his status to another level.

You say Roc Nations has no infrastructure, but they do - in fact boxing is small time for them. They're waaaaaaaaaaaay bigger than Haymon, that's why he's doing what he can to keep them out for as long he can. HBO was all too happy to welcome them aboard. 2013 was a major year for Roc Nation and they've been picking up momentum and just starting to touch boxing. They acquired some respected people in this sport and are about pick up GSP. Please don't confuse them with 50cent.

http://rocnation.com/about/

If Showtime pays Quillin $1mill to fight Jacobs, then they're way over paying his market value. He hasn't even made $450k for a fight ever before. Never headlined a card for that matter. Haymon allegedly paid him $500k to sit out, that's what you call short money. Had he been a part of a big event like he passed up, he might've actually had a market value for $1 million dollars. There's no way that would've been a bad deal for Quillin to take (assuming he won the fight)

[Daylyt]

This cuban is a disgrace to all boxers.

[Scipio2009]

The Quillin card had HBO backing and was only ment to be a one fight deal for Quillin. He had no further obligations with Roc Nations afterwards, he would've been able to maintain his Showtime relationship due to Haymon.

Passing up the fight from this past September is a complete void in his career. Aside from the money, aside from him keeping his belt, he could've received a huge bump in his popularity. There was going to be a big media push for this event as it was Roc Nation's start up and he would've been the center of it. It would've taken his status to another level.

You say Roc Nations has no infrastructure, but they do - in fact boxing is small time for them. They're waaaaaaaaaaaay bigger than Haymon, that's why he's doing what he can to keep them out for as long he can. HBO was all too happy to welcome them aboard. 2013 was a major year for Roc Nation and they've been picking up momentum and just starting to touch boxing. They acquired some respected people in this sport and are about pick up GSP. Please don't confuse them with 50cent.

http://rocnation.com/about/

If Showtime pays Quillin $1mill to fight Jacobs, then they're way over paying his market value. He hasn't even made $450k for a fight ever before. Never headlined a card for that matter. Haymon allegedly paid him $500k to sit out, that's what you call short money. Had he been a part of a big event like he passed up, he might've actually had a market value for $1 million dollars. There's no way that would've been a bad deal for Quillin to take (assuming he won the fight)

-There is absolutely no evidence that HBO was willing to pay Roc Nation any amount to air their first fight; to note, Roc Nation has still yet to promote a boxing card, with their first card being now booked for FS1.

-Outside of boxing, yes, Roc Nation is a large company. Again, outside of hiring some people who have boxing experience, Roc Nation, as a company, has no actual boxing experience. As a talent management company, Roc Nation had a great year, fine.

-Even if the number isn't $1m, Quillin went with the plan that guaranteed that he'd have a meaningful fight on Showtime, rather than chase the $1.4m and hope that HBO was ready to pick up the show (Will ignore the Haymon/Jay-Z feud for a moment)

[Eastcoast]

-There is absolutely no evidence that HBO was willing to pay Roc Nation any amount to air their first fight; to note, Roc Nation has still yet to promote a boxing card, with their first card being now booked for FS1.

-Outside of boxing, yes, Roc Nation is a large company. Again, outside of hiring some people who have boxing experience, Roc Nation, as a company, has no actual boxing experience. As a talent management company, Roc Nation had a great year, fine.

-Even if the number isn't $1m, Quillin went with the plan that guaranteed that he'd have a meaningful fight on Showtime, rather than chase the $1.4m and hope that HBO was ready to pick up the show (Will ignore the Haymon/Jay-Z feud for a moment)

There's no guarantee that Quillin's going to get a big fight on Showtime, Haymon decides that regardless. The $1.4mill was guaranteed to Pete by Roc Nation who already has that money in their bank. The whole thing was a marketing expense for them regardless of the tv deal. HBO/Showtime was never expected to pay $1.9mill and RN was fine with that = marketing expense.

I think the objective here was that we were discussing whether Al Haymon is looking out for the long term interest of himself or his fighters. Haymon forced Quillin to turn down more than 3x his peak average to be in an event where he would've been in the spotlight and been able to retain his title and status AND still be eligible for future fights on Showtime (to which he still has not yet received months later). Quillin's averaged less than $400k in his last three fights, with his respective opponents averaging around $100k. He hasn't even been a co-main event yet. He's been opening the show on a triple headers.

Haymon clearly screwed this guy over.