Comments Thread For: Larry Holmes: The Easton Assassin at 65

[Chaos]

Holmes never did and still does not get the credit he deserves when ranked all time. Without a doubt, I would rank Larry in the top five - possible first or second, and certainly well ahead of Ali; however, that's my opinion and I respect other fans who see things differently. Also, Holmes vs Norton is one of my favorite championship (all weight classes) fights. One more point, I really believe that if Holmes were possessed of a more sculpted physique (something that really should not matter), that such a physique along with the Larry's same style and ring record - nothing else different - would have meant that Holmes would have been far more highly regarded than he ever was or ever will be. Add to Larry's skills and ring record all the good that he has done for others fighters - perhaps down on their luck - and as far as I am concerned, Larry Holmes is one of the all time greats.

Holmes ranked above Ali huh? You must be smoking some good sh-t son.

[beez721]

Holmes ranked above Ali huh? You must be smoking some good sh-t son.

yea really. I just cant see a prime ali going life and death with carl williams,,tim witherspoon or spinks. holmes was a great but anyone putting him above ali is delusional

[socialteach]

Foreman had a great jab as well. Today, Kovalev and Golovkin have great jabs and they knock down people with it. Holmes was a great champion and all around good guy.

[Brassangel]

Holmes did have the best jab of all-time, that's for sure. When he was getting hit by power punchers like Cooney and Shavers, he often planted his own feet and hit back. That takes a lot of guts.

Ali's jab was very quick and showy, but had no power. He also would dance away or hold a guys' head down instead of trading. Ali has the better resume overall, and had a bigger impact on the sport (obviously). But I don't buy that Ali would have beaten Holmes in a head-to-head fight no matter how much younger he was.

Style wise, it just wouldn't work out well for him. Speed is great and all, but loses to good timing. Holmes can go as long as Ali, so the latter wouldn't be able to tire him out. Holmes would time Ali's flicks with his own powerful jab, and over the course of the fight, render Ali a little gun-shy. Then it might become a bit of a boring chess match.

NOTE: Who wins the head-to-head doesn't always determine who's greater overall. Just saying.

[Mr.Daddy]

Holmes ranked above Ali huh? You must be smoking some good sh-t son.

I was around for all of Ali's career, and if you have watched the videos of his fights as well as having seen as many of them at the theater or on live TV as I have, you would not think so highly of Ali. Go to BoxRec.com and check Ali's opponents and check their records. So many of them did not possess sufficient credentials to qualify as Ali's opponents (Adonais Stevenson has nothing on Ali, believe me). Go to YouTube and view Ali's fights. Once you've done this, if you know boxing, then you must agree that Holmes is Ali's superior - no room for doubt. I'm not crediting Ali for victories which were gifted him (the three fights with Norton - all of which Norton won yet two of them gifted to Ali. Two fights with Leon Spinks (6-0-1) and (7-0-1) both of which Spinks won yet Ali was gifted the decision in the second fight (if don't believe me then have somebody set it up for you to view the two fights without knowing which was which and then try telling me that Ali won either fight). I could go on, but you need to view Ali's fights - and do so with the audio off as the commentary often is more what the commentator wants the fans to believe was transpiring rather than an honest assessment of what was taking place. From the early part of Ali's career to the very end, time and again Ali received favorable treatment by referee and judges which no other fighter I've ever followed has received. I will concede that Ali's career had a great influence on increasing the compensation which fighters received, but in-so-far as Ali being the greatest (boxer), he's not even close. Ali never lived up to the hype, and a close video analysis of his fights clearly proves that fact, so much so that it is painful for his fans to view them.

[Spray_resistant]

I live in Allentown 15-20 miles or so from Easton, he is always out and about and I see him all of the time. Every time I am always surprised and dumbfounded never able to think of anything to say.

[beez721]

I was around for all of Ali's career, and if you have watched the videos of his fights as well as having seen as many of them at the theater or on live TV as I have, you would not think so highly of Ali. Go to BoxRec.com and check Ali's opponents and check their records. So many of them did not possess sufficient credentials to qualify as Ali's opponents (Adonais Stevenson has nothing on Ali, believe me). Go to YouTube and view Ali's fights. Once you've done this, if you know boxing, then you must agree that Holmes is Ali's superior - no room for doubt. I'm not crediting Ali for victories which were gifted him (the three fights with Norton - all of which Norton won yet two of them gifted to Ali. Two fights with Leon Spinks (6-0-1) and (7-0-1) both of which Spinks won yet Ali was gifted the decision in the second fight (if don't believe me then have somebody set it up for you to view the two fights without knowing which was which and then try telling me that Ali won either fight). I could go on, but you need to view Ali's fights - and do so with the audio off as the commentary often is more what the commentator wants the fans to believe was transpiring rather than an honest assessment of what was taking place. From the early part of Ali's career to the very end, time and again Ali received favorable treatment by referee and judges which no other fighter I've ever followed has received. I will concede that Ali's career had a great influence on increasing the compensation which fighters received, but in-so-far as Ali being the greatest (boxer), he's not even close. Ali never lived up to the hype, and a close video analysis of his fights clearly proves that fact, so much so that it is painful for his fans to view them.

I thought norton also eked out the fight with holmes and he was past his best unlike when he fought ali. ali was well past it when he lost and beat spinks in the rematch. I think holmes would have lost in a tough close fight with ali. I just dont see holmes being rated over ali at all. there styles were very similiar but I thought ali did everything a little bit better. the only thing holmes had over ali was power and even that was not by much

[Chaos]

Foreman had a great jab as well. Today, Kovalev and Golovkin have great jabs and they knock down people with it. Holmes was a great champion and all around good guy.

If by "all around good guy" you mean arrogant, bitter, self-obsessed jackass then ya, I agree.

[Chaos]

I was around for all of Ali's career, and if you have watched the videos of his fights as well as having seen as many of them at the theater or on live TV as I have, you would not think so highly of Ali. Go to BoxRec.com and check Ali's opponents and check their records. So many of them did not possess sufficient credentials to qualify as Ali's opponents (Adonais Stevenson has nothing on Ali, believe me). Go to YouTube and view Ali's fights. Once you've done this, if you know boxing, then you must agree that Holmes is Ali's superior - no room for doubt. I'm not crediting Ali for victories which were gifted him (the three fights with Norton - all of which Norton won yet two of them gifted to Ali. Two fights with Leon Spinks (6-0-1) and (7-0-1) both of which Spinks won yet Ali was gifted the decision in the second fight (if don't believe me then have somebody set it up for you to view the two fights without knowing which was which and then try telling me that Ali won either fight). I could go on, but you need to view Ali's fights - and do so with the audio off as the commentary often is more what the commentator wants the fans to believe was transpiring rather than an honest assessment of what was taking place. From the early part of Ali's career to the very end, time and again Ali received favorable treatment by referee and judges which no other fighter I've ever followed has received. I will concede that Ali's career had a great influence on increasing the compensation which fighters received, but in-so-far as Ali being the greatest (boxer), he's not even close. Ali never lived up to the hype, and a close video analysis of his fights clearly proves that fact, so much so that it is painful for his fans to view them.

Lol, thanks champ, but I don't need youtube. You think you're the only one who's seen Ali fights? Get over yourself budz. I could count with two fingers the number of people who think Holmes is better than Ali and one of them is Holmes himself. No serious boxing fan or analyst would rank him above Ali. You obviously have a personal dislike of Ali which is fine, but unfortunately you've allowed it cloud your judgement and make you look a fool.

[ssc73]

Lol, thanks champ, but I don't need youtube. You think you're the only one who's seen Ali fights? Get over yourself budz. I could count with two fingers the number of people who think Holmes is better than Ali and one of them is Holmes himself. No serious boxing fan or analyst would rank him above Ali. You obviously have a personal dislike of Ali which is fine, but unfortunately you've allowed it cloud your judgement and make you look a fool.

It's actually not that unthinkable to compare the two fighters side by side and consider Holmes a better fighter. He didn't unify the titles more because of politics. But he did beat every other belt holder of the 80's........and he was stripped of the title he originally won or likely would have unified.

Where I think Ali separates himself from Holmes and every other HW for that matter, was his ability to plan and adjust his style and ability to beat a particular fighter. Holmes was Holmes. Frazier was Frazier, etc. Ali, there were at least half a dozen versions of him.........but the very best one, pre 1967, is almost impossible for Holmes to beat.

Holmes would have had a fair chance in the mid-70's. But I also think Frazier beats Holmes and whether or not Holmes could have beaten the version of Foreman that Ali did is definitely debatable.

Possibly the second best jab all time, Sonny Liston, (I don't think it's even debatable that Holmes had the best jab in HW history), would have been very tough for Holmes to beat........Patterson would have been a tough fight for him too....

I have Joe Louis and Ali as sort of co-#1 ATG HW. Holmes definitely belongs in the top ten. He was fundamentally sound and may well have been the better all-around fundamental fighter overall...........but his resume comes up short compared to Ali's, just like everyone else's.

Ali WAS past his best vs Norton (unless you had crushing power, a style problem for anyone), and even more beyond his best vs Leon.

Ali's best years were unfortunately spent outside the ring. The version that refused induction?? I don't think any HW in history beats that guy.......

Holmes was much more beatable. But it's not ridiculous to put him just behind Ali and Louis.......though I believe Frazier also beats him. But not unthinkable that Holmes pulls it off.....

The top 10 HW of all time, 3-10 are always moving around on my list in my head....but Holmes is there and belongs there.

If he had been around in contention in the 70's at his best or 90's at his best, I think he fares well. Ali just fares better with any given opponent. And I thnk that's the difference.

And as a side-note, I've seen virtually every one of both guys fights.......without audio.....

Ali/Louis, and THEN we start talking about everyone else......Just my opinion though.............