Who will retire with the best legacy?

[blockhead]

How can you say his time passed too early when he didn't get beat until after he turned 35? And that was after 50 professional fights! Are you kidding me? Toney's record is impressive but there is a lot more that goes into a record than numbers. Toney lost his fights at a time where he should have been at the top of his game. He would have been one of greatest of all time if he had his head on straight. But he didn't. Toney's style gives him longevity but Roy's in more about speed and reflexes which have deteriorated. Bottom line...Jones beat Toney at a time where both should have been in their prime. Legacy refers to the span of the career, not what have you done for me lately.

legacy does refer to the span of ones career, and whos career is still growing? toney's, he still has a handful of good fights in him and jones and hop are done and done in fewer fights. toney has a more durable style and that is why his legacy is still growing.

[Manny_P]

James Toney aint even done yet. He's gonna win the WBC Title and will unify. That alone outdoes what Roy and Hop has done IMO.

[benalawson]

Um this is easy
Hopkins biggest wins- DLH, TITO
Toneys biggest wins- Ruiz, Jirov
RJJ biggest wins- THE OTHER TWO GUYS IN THIS POLL!!!!
Oh yeah and he beat Ruiz and imagine what he would do to DLH and TITO

[Brother Mouzone]

i think jones gets the nod despite his last 3 fights ....he beat toney in his prime when toney was considered the best p4p fighter in the world by many..he also beat hopkins....he won titles in 4 weight classes ..people forget that before the 1st. tarver fight jones had hardly lost a rnd. as a profesional !!!..toney is 2nd. on my list great boxer and one of the best defenses in the history of the sport and is a great counter puncher he is a 3 div. champ but he lost to rjj so i can't place him ahead of jones ...hopkins is 3rd. despite his record title defenses his biggest wins came against 2 welterweights he has also never moved up in weight so he has only held title in that div for this i can't consider him ahead of either toney or rjj..

[oldgringo]

i think jones gets the nod despite his last 3 fights ....he beat toney in his prime when toney was considered the best p4p fighter in the world by many..he also beat hopkins....he won titles in 4 weight classes ..people forget that before the 1st. tarver fight jones had hardly lost a rnd. as a profesional !!!..toney is 2nd. on my list great boxer and one of the best defenses in the history of the sport and is a great counter puncher he is a 3 div. champ but he lost to rjj so i can't place him ahead of jones ...hopkins is 3rd. despite his record title defenses his biggest wins came against 2 welterweights he has also never moved up in weight so he has only held title in that div for this i can't consider him ahead of either toney or rjj..

This is what I don't get sometimes. The people that say Toney cannot surpass Jones because he lost to Jones...Hopkins as well. It's exactly what people say with Barrera and Morales too. Morales "shouldn't be rated above Barrera because Barrera has two wins in the record books over Erik".

Hell, the **** they accomplish outside of that should weigh a lot in these discussions too. I mean Sandy Saddler and Willie Pep both accomplished a **** load in their career, but Saddler got the best of Pep in their fight series. Conventional wisdom tells us that Pep is is the greater fighter however right?

Anyway should Toney go on to beat Rahman and go after a guy like Brewster and unify...I think that should put him ahead of both of these guys. Just like I think if Hopkins goes on to beat Tarver, challenges a guy like Calzaghe and beats him afterwards, then he should be rated above Toney/Jones. As it goes, I believe Jones and Toney will always be synonomous with each other....both are great fighters. I just think that Toney has a lot of fight left in him, and has done things at later stages of his career that will propel him higher than Jones in peoples minds.

I probably just wrote a bunch of garbage, because I didn't really think about what I wrote.

[blockhead]

James Toney aint even done yet. He's gonna win the WBC Title and will unify. That alone outdoes what Roy and Hop has done IMO.

excaclty manny, the fact that toney isnt done yet is enough to show that his legacy is still growing

[DiegoFuego]

This is what I don't get sometimes. The people that say Toney cannot surpass Jones because he lost to Jones...Hopkins as well. It's exactly what people say with Barrera and Morales too. Morales "shouldn't be rated above Barrera because Barrera has two wins in the record books over Erik".

Hell, the **** they accomplish outside of that should weigh a lot in these discussions too. I mean Sandy Saddler and Willie Pep both accomplished a **** load in their career, but Saddler got the best of Pep in their fight series. Conventional wisdom tells us that Pep is is the greater fighter however right?

Anyway should Toney go on to beat Rahman and go after a guy like Brewster and unify...I think that should put him ahead of both of these guys. Just like I think if Hopkins goes on to beat Tarver, challenges a guy like Calzaghe and beats him afterwards, then he should be rated above Toney/Jones. As it goes, I believe Jones and Toney will always be synonomous with each other....both are great fighters. I just think that Toney has a lot of fight left in him, and has done things at later stages of his career that will propel him higher than Jones in peoples minds.

I probably just wrote a bunch of garbage, because I didn't really think about what I wrote.

everything you said is 100% true. I think Roy is going to have to sit back and watch as these guys make or break their opportunity to surpass him. If Hopkins beats Tarver and Toney loses to Rahman, Hopkins will be the best of the three. If Hopkins loses and Toney goes on to win the title and maybe unify some belts, Toney goes down as the best. I think Roy cannot be the best if either guy wins their upcoming fight. Roy should have stayed at heavyweight and fought Byrd or some other heavyweights after Ruiz. If he had, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But Roy came down and got crushed by Tarver and Johnson, so he's probably out of the picture. Hopkins just went 24 competitive rounds against the future of the middleweight division. Roy was not competitive against Tarver or Johnson. Toney is not only competitive, he is dominating every fight he is in! Toney is going to take home the best resume by the end of this year.

[Super_Lightweight]

Toney has yet to fulfill his later career potential. His 1st good win in YEARS was vs Jirov, and since then Toney has stagnated.

In order to be considered ABOVE a guy who was in the upper ranks of the p4p for a decade and who totaly dominated him, Toney has to accomplish much more. Beating Rahman does not fit that bill. There are several guys he'd have to beat to be ranked above Roy all time.

Hopkins is done and will not beat Tarver. He cannot advance his legacy any further because he is too old finally. Roy relied on speed/reflexes/stamina which have deteriorated significantly. That cannot be used against him. He still did what he did and many fighters fall on their faces at earlier ages than Rjj did.

Summary: Hops won't beat Tarver, didn't rematch RJJ when he eas offered 6 million, and will not surpass Roy or Toney.

Toney has to beat the title holders (aside from Valuev who is a JOKE) to be ranked above Jones. There is no one dominant champ at heavy, just 4 average guys. If there was a Lennox Lewis to beat, you'd have to rank Toney over Jones easy if Toney were to defeat Lewis. But that time has passed.

We'll see what happens. Personaly, I think Klitschko will beat Byrd and Toney rather easily.

[DiegoFuego]

Wow, Roy's in last. Glad to see the IQ's here have gone up since November.

[DiegoFuego]

Keep in mind, this isn't asking who the best fighter is because it's probably Roy. But his resume will pale in comparison to Toney's and Hopkins' should they win their upcoming bouts.