Comments Thread For: Andre Ward Seeks Criminal Investigation on Goossen

[Wicky]

You suggested you'd prefer a world in which promotional contracts were easy for fighters to leave whenever they please.

No, I didn't. I suggested contracts being mutually beneficial.

[Wicky]

You suggested you'd prefer a world in which promotional contracts were easy for fighters to leave whenever they please.

I explained that makes no ****ing sense in boxing, where 99% of the time a promoter has to invest (i.e., lose) money developing a fighter for years upon years before ever turning a profit because of the economics of sport.

"Oh, thanks, Promoter A, for pouring all that money into getting me to 20-0 with 16KOs, with some credible names on my record. Paying for quality sparring partners, tossing me some cash when I needed to keep the lights on at my apartment. But I'd like to leave now because Promoter B is offering me a title shot at a big star if I sign with him. See ya!"

and...

Young fighters aren't headline acts, they're shown on the undercards of fights that already cover the venue & promotion. There are definitely costs associated with developing a fighter's career, but if a promoter is making a loss doing so he's not very good at his job.

[djt117]

No, I didn't. I suggested contracts being mutually beneficial.

No, you didn't:

The problem with most contracts are that they are too lengthy. It breeds animosity later because the fighter is bound by a somewhat out of date contract

The whole point is that they are lengthy. Fighters often take what, maybe 3-4 years on average to develop into title contenders. It's once they get to that level that a promoter gets a chance to recoup their investment.

The common tactic is to get the fighter to sign a series of extensions, which say "I promote your fights for the next 4 bouts, but if I get you a title shot, then it extends for 4 more"

If not a title shot (or after the guy becomes champ), it's usually a promise of a per-fight monetary guarantee. When that runs to the end, it's often a specific fight promised along with guaranteed money: I'll get you Pac or Floyd next but once I do, we extend for 3 more fights.

The fact that Goosen was Ward's promoter for 10 years doesn't mean he was bound by an "outdated agreement" as you suggested above -- that's what an extension is -- both sides are free to re-tool and update the contract. Ward did that. They all do. They're free to bring the best lawyers in the world in to consult them and look it over if they're not sure it's fair. The problem is that the fighters love getting the money and it looks great at the time, usually comes with a signing bonus, etc. Then as soon as the grass looks greener somewhere else all of a sudden it's utter enslavement.

Obviously I don't know the particular situation of Ward but the vast majority of boxing fans have no idea how the economics of the sport work, and the legacy of guys like Don King who so notoriously preyed on fighters makes people think the fighter is always getting ****ed and "promoters' greed" is responsible for everything bad with the sport. Sometimes that's the case, sure, but other times, fighters can be greedy hoes too. Just sayin'

[SN!PER]

Goossen is another Don King.

At least Ward has the balls to stand up for himself and do what's right instead of letting Goossen take advantage of him.

[JJRod]

Most boxers/celebs/whatever don't sit down with the books and manage their own finances. Ward may not have known the facts when he re-signed.
Yeah, Ward is clearly trying to get out of his contract in any way he can, but it's BS to assume Ward's 100% in the wrong without knowing the full facts. Like Goossen doesn't have any tactics in this.... yeah, right!

I'm not arguing this. He may not have known all the fact, but if this is the case then he has only himself to blame. He should be firing his management team and lawyers for giving him what he now perceives to be a bad deal.

Since I have not heard of him firing anyone on his team, it's pretty clear he's just looking for a cheap way to back out of a contract.

[JJRod]

No, you didn't:



The whole point is that they are lengthy. Fighters often take what, maybe 3-4 years on average to develop into title contenders. It's once they get to that level that a promoter gets a chance to recoup their investment.

The common tactic is to get the fighter to sign a series of extensions, which say "I promote your fights for the next 4 bouts, but if I get you a title shot, then it extends for 4 more"

If not a title shot (or after the guy becomes champ), it's usually a promise of a per-fight monetary guarantee. When that runs to the end, it's often a specific fight promised along with guaranteed money: I'll get you Pac or Floyd next but once I do, we extend for 3 more fights.

The fact that Goosen was Ward's promoter for 10 years doesn't mean he was bound by an "outdated agreement" as you suggested above -- that's what an extension is -- both sides are free to re-tool and update the contract. Ward did that. They all do. They're free to bring the best lawyers in the world in to consult them and look it over if they're not sure it's fair. The problem is that the fighters love getting the money and it looks great at the time, usually comes with a signing bonus, etc. Then as soon as the grass looks greener somewhere else all of a sudden it's utter enslavement.

Obviously I don't know the particular situation of Ward but the vast majority of boxing fans have no idea how the economics of the sport work, and the legacy of guys like Don King who so notoriously preyed on fighters makes people think the fighter is always getting ****ed and "promoters' greed" is responsible for everything bad with the sport. Sometimes that's the case, sure, but other times, fighters can be greedy hoes too. Just sayin'

Well put.

[Wicky]

...Obviously I don't know the particular situation of Ward...

True dat!

...Sometimes that's the case, sure...

Good, I'm glad you understand now.

[Mr.Fantastic]

Ward fans are always complaining he's the victim.

Hey another guy is doing the most work and getting more attention than Ward, Ward is the victim.

Goosen promoted Ward to be the only one to fight at home during the Super Six, Ward is the victim.

Ward so called cleaned the division but they want GGG to come up. GGG decides to clean his division first, Ward is the victim.

Since you so called cleaned the division, move up and clean 175 would be logical right? No, they should come down in weight.

[lefthook2daliva]

No, you didn't:



The whole point is that they are lengthy. Fighters often take what, maybe 3-4 years on average to develop into title contenders. It's once they get to that level that a promoter gets a chance to recoup their investment.

$The common tactic is to get the fighter to sign a series of extensions, which say "I promote your fights for the next 4 bouts, but if I get you a title shot, then it extends for 4 more"

If not a title shot (or after the guy becomes champ), it's usually a promise of a per-fight monetary guarantee. When that runs to the end, it's often a specific fight promised along with guaranteed money: I'll get you Pac or Floyd next but once I do, we extend for 3 more fights.

The fact that Goosen was Ward's promoter for 10 years doesn't mean he was bound by an "outdated agreement" as you suggested above -- that's what an extension is -- both sides are free to re-tool and update the contract. Ward did that. They all do. They're free to bring the best lawyers in the world in to consult them and look it over if they're not sure it's fair. The problem is that the fighters love getting the money and it looks great at the time, usually comes with a signing bonus, etc. Then as soon as the grass looks greener somewhere else all of a sudden it's utter enslavement.

Obviously I don't know the particular situation of Ward but the vast majority of boxing fans have no idea how the economics of the sport work, and the legacy of guys like Don King who so notoriously preyed on fighters makes people think the fighter is always getting ****ed and "promoters' greed" is responsible for everything bad with the sport. Sometimes that's the case, sure, but other times, fighters can be greedy hoes too. Just sayin'

We'll said. This is how it works amongst grownups in the real world. You are responsible for what you sign your name to. Unless there was some form of coercion, it's on you to know what you sign up for.

Note that I'm a big Ward fan and I like the way he presents himself in the media, but I don't know dude from Adam. It's possible he's a smarmy diva that just happens to be the baddest man south of cruiser.

I just wish he'd get his ish settled and get back to utterly dominating his opponents.

[Wicky]

We'll said. This is how it works amongst grownups in the real world. You are responsible for what you sign your name to. Unless there was some form of coercion, it's on you to know what you sign up for.

Note that I'm a big Ward fan and I like the way he presents himself in the media, but I don't know dude from Adam. It's possible he's a smarmy diva that just happens to be the baddest man south of cruiser.

I just wish he'd get his ish settled and get back to utterly dominating his opponents.

Contractual law is all about the fine print. You know nothing if you don't know about the details of the contract, so you can stop with the "grownups" shh1t because what you're saying is only conjecture... which is not especially grownup.