If Cotto beats GGG, how would you rank him with the Great PR boxers?

[JmH Reborn]

I totally agree. Legacy wise he does nothing. Hasn't stopped everyone crying about Cotto ducking him however.

Ok man - Champ avoided the question - so I'll ask you, we're Stans on the same side of the battlefield

What other fighter in the game right now - outside of Floyd Mayweather could give Miguel Cotto prestige? Not money - prestige. In 10 years when I'm arguing the greatness of this era and Miguel's place in it - I won't be arguing his bank account. So who - outside of GGG is the most prestigious win for Miguel Cotto right now and 2015?

Pacquiao -- No longer prime, two weightclass disparity, not the same guy who beat up Cotto in 2009

JMM -- 40 yrs old, doesn't look particularly good against anybody not named Pacquiao

Quillin -- He's probably the most fraudulent paper champ currently fighting, Mr. Undercard is terrible.

Bradley -- Owned by a past-prime Pac, moving up two-weight classes. Nothing to be gained, everything to lose.

Canelo -- Squeaked by Lara, Trout and hammered a washed up Angulo. He was already humiliated 12-0 by Mayweather. Yes he has a good Lara win, but it wasn't a spectacular affair.

Trout -- At least he can attempt to avenge an L

So; the biggest prestige fight available is GGG. He's a silver medalist; champ in the division Cotto holds the lineal stake in. He has 11 defenses against a varying degree of opponents. He's a KO artist, he's stronger than an ox. He's marketable in NY. He has skills, power and technique. Cotto would be a severe underdog. He's the boogeyman of boxing, not just the MW division. The dude gets hit flush and in the same motion can still OHKO his opponents. Cotto beating him is greater than all the above mentioned guys. Nobody has solved GGG.

As a Cotto stan/****rider or whatever; I rather Cotto do what he's done his entire career, fight the best fighter(s) available and go out in a blaze of glory. F the Canelo fight, that brings nothing, F all the others.

Floyd Mayweather and GGG - those are the only fights that matter at this point

[JmH Reborn]

GGG reminds me of Mathysse. Marhysse the fighter Danny Garcia would never fight and was ducking, remember?

And when we all look back - if Danny Garcia fizzles out - we'll still remember him for accepting the challenge, being an underdog and beating the ish out of him. It's the fight that legitimized Danny Garcia and now holds him to a higher standard, so when he's fighting scrubs like Rod Salsa, fans and critics alike only think that it's crap because Danny went through the fire that was Matthyse, and came out on top.

He literally can do nothing else, but at least he rose to a higher level when needed and beat the best guy in the division who was the boogeyman. Nobody can never take that from him

[ChampBox@PR]

Ok man - Champ avoided the question - so I'll ask you, we're Stans on the same side of the battlefield

What other fighter in the game right now - outside of Floyd Mayweather could give Miguel Cotto prestige? Not money - prestige. In 10 years when I'm arguing the greatness of this era and Miguel's place in it - I won't be arguing his bank account. So who - outside of GGG is the most prestigious win for Miguel Cotto right now and 2015?

Pacquiao -- No longer prime, two weightclass disparity, not the same guy who beat up Cotto in 2009

JMM -- 40 yrs old, doesn't look particularly good against anybody not named Pacquiao

Quillin -- He's probably the most fraudulent paper champ currently fighting, Mr. Undercard is terrible.

Bradley -- Owned by a past-prime Pac, moving up two-weight classes. Nothing to be gained, everything to lose.

Canelo -- Squeaked by Lara, Trout and hammered a washed up Angulo. He was already humiliated 12-0 by Mayweather. Yes he has a good Lara win, but it wasn't a spectacular affair.

Trout -- At least he can attempt to avenge an L

So; the biggest prestige fight available is GGG. He's a silver medalist; champ in the division Cotto holds the lineal stake in. He has 11 defenses against a varying degree of opponents. He's a KO artist, he's stronger than an ox. He's marketable in NY. He has skills, power and technique. Cotto would be a severe underdog. He's the boogeyman of boxing, not just the MW division. The dude gets hit flush and in the same motion can still OHKO his opponents. Cotto beating him is greater than all the above mentioned guys. Nobody has solved GGG.

As a Cotto stan/****rider or whatever; I rather Cotto do what he's done his entire career, fight the best fighter(s) available and go out in a blaze of glory. F the Canelo fight, that brings nothing, F all the others.

Floyd Mayweather and GGG - those are the only fights that matter at this point

Canelo, Floyd, Pac, hell Froch at a catchweight(crazy).

GGG has beaten no-fucking-body. He does nothing for Cotto. GGG is just hyped. He is screwed a la klitchsko, his resume is **** because the division sucks.

[ChampBox@PR]

And when we all look back - if Danny Garcia fizzles out - we'll still remember him for accepting the challenge, being an underdog and beating the ish out of him. It's the fight that legitimized Danny Garcia and now holds him to a higher standard, so when he's fighting scrubs like Rod Salsa, fans and critics alike only think that it's crap because Danny went through the fire that was Matthyse, and came out on top.

He literally can do nothing else, but at least he rose to a higher level when needed and beat the best guy in the division who was the boogeyman. Nobody can never take that from him

And that was Danny's first real threat in the sense that he had everything to lose and to the most dangerous guy available.

Cotto as done this x amount of times. Not the same situation. If cotto doesn't fight GGG nothing happens, if he beats him, he gets a bit more hype, but when is time to go to the HOF, it will be remember as Cotto fought a hyped guy that have beaten nobody.

[El Angel]

Ok man - Champ avoided the question - so I'll ask you, we're Stans on the same side of the battlefield

What other fighter in the game right now - outside of Floyd Mayweather could give Miguel Cotto prestige? Not money - prestige. In 10 years when I'm arguing the greatness of this era and Miguel's place in it - I won't be arguing his bank account. So who - outside of GGG is the most prestigious win for Miguel Cotto right now and 2015?

Pacquiao -- No longer prime, two weightclass disparity, not the same guy who beat up Cotto in 2009

JMM -- 40 yrs old, doesn't look particularly good against anybody not named Pacquiao

Quillin -- He's probably the most fraudulent paper champ currently fighting, Mr. Undercard is terrible.

Bradley -- Owned by a past-prime Pac, moving up two-weight classes. Nothing to be gained, everything to lose.

Canelo -- Squeaked by Lara, Trout and hammered a washed up Angulo. He was already humiliated 12-0 by Mayweather. Yes he has a good Lara win, but it wasn't a spectacular affair.

Trout -- At least he can attempt to avenge an L

So; the biggest prestige fight available is GGG. He's a silver medalist; champ in the division Cotto holds the lineal stake in. He has 11 defenses against a varying degree of opponents. He's a KO artist, he's stronger than an ox. He's marketable in NY. He has skills, power and technique. Cotto would be a severe underdog. He's the boogeyman of boxing, not just the MW division. The dude gets hit flush and in the same motion can still OHKO his opponents. Cotto beating him is greater than all the above mentioned guys. Nobody has solved GGG.

As a Cotto stan/****rider or whatever; I rather Cotto do what he's done his entire career, fight the best fighter(s) available and go out in a blaze of glory. F the Canelo fight, that brings nothing, F all the others.

Floyd Mayweather and GGG - those are the only fights that matter at this point

But you just know when he beats GGG, everyone will say GGG never beat an elite fighter. And TBH, he is the top contender in VERY top heavy division. Outside of Cotto and GGG, the division is very average and mediocre at best.

Yes he would defeat boxing's boogeyman. Yes he would shut up all the doubters. But let's be real here, when we look back on it, how big will Lucas be for Danny? Yeah he proved everyone wrong. But legacy wise, it's not a huge win.

Obviously beating Floyd would advance his legacy. I think beating Canelo off of his Angulo, Lara, and (probable) Kirkland wins is going to be a big win. The added Mexico-PR, fair or not, adds to the prestige as well.

But you're right. At this point, MC isn't going to have a ton of options that can add to his legacy.

[JmH Reborn]

Canelo, Floyd, Pac, hell Froch at a catchweight(crazy).

GGG has beaten no-fucking-body. He does nothing for Cotto. GGG is just hyped. He is screwed a la klitchsko, his resume is **** because the division sucks.

Pac is washed up - Cotto lost to the best version of Pac. How is that any better in 2014 when he's 36. Cotto had his chance at beating Pac when it would have been the greatest win of anybody's career in the current era - and he went to battle hard headed "I'm just as fast as him" and using his waterboy as his trainer. In 2014-2015, it's just a hollow win, especially after him getting KTFO by a 40 year old. Pac isn't even getting past Algieri lol.

Canelo is more hyped up than GGG. His biggest test - and it wasn't competitive at any point. Sure he got a bounce back win against Lara. But it wasn't a good performance by either fight. I fail to realize how, other than the bank account is Canelo a historically better win than someone like GGG. If Cotto beats him - history will just say, "Mayweather took his zero and made him look like an amateur, Miguel just confirmed that he was a hype job"

I already stated that Floyd is the greatest career defining win for any fighter - next.

Froch - sure, if Cotto was crazy enough to attempt that fight, then yeah, that's above GGG - but I'm trying to be realistic. One right hand from Froch would kill Cotto.

[JmH Reborn]

But you just know when he beats GGG, everyone will say GGG never beat an elite fighter. And TBH, he is the top contender in VERY top heavy division. Outside of Cotto and GGG, the division is very average and mediocre at best.

Good thing - history will be written by smarter people than the random trolls on NSB who can't be classified as fans at this point. GGG has beaten enough Top 10 guys in impressive fashion to be at this point considered a legit win. History has proven, even in weak divisions, amassing all those defenses can be a hard thing. History looks at Hopkins 20 defenses at MW in the broader sense. He beat, not a whole lot of household names, be good enough top 10 names to be legit.

Yes he would defeat boxing's boogeyman. Yes he would shut up all the doubters. But let's be real here, when we look back on it, how big will Lucas be for Danny? Yeah he proved everyone wrong. But legacy wise, it's not a huge win.

I spoke about it earlier - but I disagree. It's the fight that made Danny a legit fighter. If nothing else, at the moment it's his career defining win, which he was a massive underdog. He can do nothing else for the rest of his career, but when looking back, writers and fans will remember that one win. If Danny goes on to have an HoF career, 10 years from now, it'll be the Lucas Matthyse win that started his trend.

Obviously beating Floyd would advance his legacy. I think beating Canelo off of his Angulo, Lara, and (probable) Kirkland wins is going to be a big win. The added Mexico-PR, fair or not, adds to the prestige as well.

So who would hold the better, more legacy enhancing win over Canelo? Floyd or Miguel

I guess that perhaps should be the question asked overall. I will always credit Mayweather as having a better win over Ginger. But I can see why you (thank you for actually explaining!) why you think the Ginger is a big win at this point - he's coming off Lara, Angulo and Kirkland. So I take it you're suggesting that Mayweather did not fight the best possible Canelo and got him while he was still wet behind the ears.

But you're right. At this point, MC isn't going to have a ton of options that can add to his legacy.

Nope, that's why I rank GGG as the best option overall

Legacy
1). Floyd
2). GGG
3). Who cares

Financially
1). Floyd
2). Canelo
3). Who cares

A past-prime Cotto who many though has been washed up since 2010, again an underdog beating by far the scariest guy in boxing - it's a nice way to end a career and be proud of. I already rank (to get back about the topic at hand) Cotto higher than Tito (my post history details my lack of overall appreciation for Tito) but short of some others - but man getting past GGG would really make myself and other smarter people than me re-evaluate in a grander context how good he was/is - not in terms of just PR greats, but greats in general.

[Showtime..]

Chill son...GGG is the biggest problem in boxing right now. He's got hulk like strength, extensive experience, 11 defenses and is at his peak/prime. The only more relevant win in boxing at the moment is beating Floyd.

Who on the platter is a more relevant win for Cotto? Canelo? The guy who was embarrassed 12-0 by Floyd? Pac? Perhaps, but he's all but washed up and out of his preferred weight. Cotto doesn't need to fight GGG for HoF credentials, it's set in stone, but if goes in and fights GGG, let alone win? It'll be by far the most legit win of any of the best fighters of this generation

Manny is washed up but Floyd isn't? Come on bro. In their last fights PacMan schooled Bradley while Mayweather fought like old man Jenkins vs Maidana.

Comparing Manny from 2009 to 2014, yeah, he obviously isn't as good, but it's been 5 years past his Prime. Anytime you avenge a loss it makes up for the first time to some degree.

[JmH Reborn]

Manny is washed up but Floyd isn't? Come on bro. In their last fights PacMan schooled Bradley while Mayweather fought like old man Jenkins vs Maidana.

Comparing Manny from 2009 to 2014, yeah, he obviously isn't as good, but it's been 5 years past his Prime. Anytime you avenge a loss it makes up for the first time to some degree.

Hey man - Floyd isn't a spring chicken and isn't in his prime - but if someone were to beat Floyd - it'll be the biggest win in boxing for that individual. Nobody has beaten him, and nobody has come close since Castillo. Maidana had success in the first half and that was it. It was a fun fight - that's about it.

Pac school Bradley, but it was no different than the first fight - just an official W. He's still dramatically slowed down, no longer that feared puncher and has been put to sleep. It just isn't the same anymore. Beating Pac is just to have that W on your record, but then the critic and historians wlll just point to 2009. I mean - it's worth money and a chance to even on some level avenge an L - but at this point, it's nothing more than a consolation prize. I think someone as prideful as Miguel would recognize that he beat up a shell of Pac past Hulkquez and will know that when Pac was his absolute best, Miguel just wasn't good enough.

He matches up better against Floyd than Pac - and at this point, more prestige in it. I wish more fans were like you and said that avenging an L is always a positive. Since hindsight, nobody wants to give credit for Cotto retiring Margarito. Nobody will give credit for beating a hollow Pac. Hell, he can beat Trout in December and avenge that L, and trolls will just say that Trout is damaged goods after he took Ls to Canelo and Lara

[Showtime..]

Hey man - Floyd isn't a spring chicken and isn't in his prime - but if someone were to beat Floyd - it'll be the biggest win in boxing for that individual. Nobody has beaten him, and nobody has come close since Castillo. Maidana had success in the first half and that was it. It was a fun fight - that's about it.

Pac school Bradley, but it was no different than the first fight - just an official W. He's still dramatically slowed down, no longer that feared puncher and has been put to sleep. It just isn't the same anymore. Beating Pac is just to have that W on your record, but then the critic and historians wlll just point to 2009. I mean - it's worth money and a chance to even on some level avenge an L - but at this point, it's nothing more than a consolation prize. I think someone as prideful as Miguel would recognize that he beat up a shell of Pac past Hulkquez and will know that when Pac was his absolute best, Miguel just wasn't good enough.

He matches up better against Floyd than Pac - and at this point, more prestige in it. I wish more fans were like you and said that avenging an L is always a positive. Since hindsight, nobody wants to give credit for Cotto retiring Margarito. Nobody will give credit for beating a hollow Pac. Hell, he can beat Trout in December and avenge that L, and trolls will just say that Trout is damaged goods after he took Ls to Canelo and Lara

I mean, I look at Paul Williams and he has a rock-solid resume. His only 2 losses came to guys he already (or eventually) beat. I get your point on beating Floyd. He isn't in his Prime either but it would still be a huge win finally shutting up the overrated big mouth. We have different opinions on the Maidana fight, even considering I see him ending Floyd in the rematch, but that's beside the point.

I would like to see Cotto avenge his Trout loss though.