Official Guerrero - Kamegai, Russell - Lomachenko RbR & Discussion Thread

[IMDAZED]

It was very annoying to watch! Loma would back away for so long, repeatedly. And for what?

I actually thought that was a smart, veteran move. He was trying to leave some reserve in the tank each round and because of that he brought plenty to the table throughout the fight. In fact I think that's one of the reasons Loma has transitioned so seamlessly to the pros; he knows how to fight strong for 12 rounds.

That said, as Benny pointed out, he still makes a few amateurish mistakes in there and this is one example of it. He should have stood his ground more and perhaps he could've gotten the stoppage. Either way, it was a very impressive performance last night and if he continues to improve, he's going to be a serious problem.

[SlySlickSmooth]

GRJ fought a like a fuggin Amateur.

[brick wall]

It was very annoying to watch! Loma would back away for so long, repeatedly. And for what?

pretty funny coming from a floyd fanboy

[SlySlickSmooth]

What I think is funny is Loma is praised for his Amateur background, while Loma was pulling his Willie Pep out on Russell, Willie Pep actually had over 200 PROFESSIONAL fights.

[SlySlickSmooth]

It was very annoying to watch! Loma would back away for so long, repeatedly. And for what?

It must suck to watch a fight and have no idea what a fighter is doing
It was sort of clear as to what he was doing especially since he mainly stepped off the gas after the opening four. If you find one of my posts, I mention the actual fight doesn't start till (after) the fourth round.

And it drastically changed, Loma had GRJ punching air, tiring himself out. I understand some people hate the inactivity of over 90 seconds but some say Willie Pep won a round without throwing a punch before. Loma did well to box because he knew Russell would have to bank on his 2nd/3rd punch landing out of his combinations to do some damage. Loma knew he couldn't walk straight into incoming fire, so he did what he could.

Once Loma figures out how to counter off his movement more he'll be a hell of a fighter.

[BennyST]

It must suck to watch a fight and have no idea what a fighter is doing
It was sort of clear as to what he was doing especially since he mainly stepped off the gas after the opening four. If you find one of my posts, I mention the actual fight doesn't start till (after) the fourth round.

And it drastically changed, Loma had GRJ punching air, tiring himself out. I understand some people hate the inactivity of over 90 seconds but some say Willie Pep won a round without throwing a punch before. Loma did well to box because he knew Russell would have to bank on his 2nd/3rd punch landing out of his combinations to do some damage. Loma knew he couldn't walk straight into incoming fire, so he did what he could.

Once Loma figures out how to counter off his movement more he'll be a hell of a fighter.

Some say that, but it's a complete myth. It was a misunderstanding that got repeated too much, to where the actual story changed.

What happened was that Pep told a reporter, jokingly, that he would win a round without his punches actually hitting the guy because of his damaged hands. He would make it look like they were hitting him, but he would be pulling them, because he was having hand trouble at that stage. So he jokingly said he would win the round without throwing a proper punch ie. hitting the guy with one.

That was said and reported before the Jackie Graves fight (if memory serves) and all the news accounts of that fight was that it was a very hard fought battle between both guys and that the round in question, the third, was a round with hard exchanges between both, with both getting hit and hitting back. It was a hard fight for Pep, and the myth grew out of that small story that happened before the fight even started. All that talk went out the window when the fight did start and it turned out to be a hard fight for both guys.

Anyway, as to your last point. I think that's Loma's biggest transition problem at the moment. It's a very amateur style. You attack, then you move away, or just pull guard. Rinse and repeat. Loma was very good at it. He still hasn't quite gotten the hang of moving between offence and defence yet. That's why Salido was able to win large stretches of the fight, through pure aggression. Lomas was still stuck in amateur mode, waiting for Salido to finish, rather than using his attack to create his own openings, or using his defense to open Salido up to counter shots. It's a big part of his game that he needs to work on with guys he can beat over his next few defenses maybe.

Rigo had the same problem, and even he still does a bit, though it's not nearly as bad as it once was. Loma is even more so though. He attacks, stops, waits, goes into defense mode by moving or blocking, then waits until it stops and then he attacks again. One problem with it is that it takes a lot of unnecessary energy from you that isn't actively involved in winning the fight. Second is that your offence and defense become one dimensional in the sense that it's a very static form of it. You're not creating opportunities from the opponents attack, or setting offence up based on good defense. It's only done when he has stopped.

A big problem it creates is that when you get tired, your attacking moments become smaller and smaller and they get further apart, because it takes more energy to just launch an all out full frontal attack on someone ready for it. You have to spend a lot of energy trying to open him up while he's on the defensive and actively trying to stop it. It takes less energy to open up on a guy when he has opened himself up through his own offense which then leaves him open, or through your defense opening him up. It's harder to create and find openings when the guy is ready for your attack and knows it's coming. Duran was the best I've. Ever seen at doing that. Using a guys offense, and his own defense to create openings which he would then violently exploit. He rarely just attacked a guy. It always came off his defense, feinting or counter punching.

He might get away with it....oh, he already hasn't. Well, he might get away with it in the future, but it's risky because certain style of the pro game can easily take advantage of those little flaws. Hopefully he fixes it and becomes more fluent in the transition. A huge thing that also fixes is offensive chances and consistency. You don't just attack when the opponent isn't. You can attack when you want, or when the opponent is attacking too. That's often the best way to get a KO as well.

[radioraheem]

It must suck to watch a fight and have no idea what a fighter is doing
It was sort of clear as to what he was doing especially since he mainly stepped off the gas after the opening four. If you find one of my posts, I mention the actual fight doesn't start till (after) the fourth round.

And it drastically changed, Loma had GRJ punching air, tiring himself out. I understand some people hate the inactivity of over 90 seconds but some say Willie Pep won a round without throwing a punch before. Loma did well to box because he knew Russell would have to bank on his 2nd/3rd punch landing out of his combinations to do some damage. Loma knew he couldn't walk straight into incoming fire, so he did what he could.

Once Loma figures out how to counter off his movement more he'll be a hell of a fighter.

What he was doing was obvious -- coasting, taking off. And please don't ever again accuse someone of not knowing what a fighter is doing, and then later make ridiculous comments comparing Loma to Willie Pep! Loma was not doing a Willie Pep.

Loma knew he couldn't walk into incoming fire? What fire? Haha. Russell didn't have much power behind many of his pitty pat punches. You're giving excuses for Loma's inactivity. But the reality is that, he didn't need to be so excessively inactive. If he were more aggressive, he could've gotten Russell out of there, because there opportunity presented itself multiple times.

[Bardock]

It's funny how when a fighter uses lateral movement on another pure boxer he's running away but when a boxer does it against a brawler its beautiful boxing lol flowmos

[radioraheem]

Some say that, but it's a complete myth. It was a misunderstanding that got repeated too much, to where the actual story changed.

What happened was that Pep told a reporter, jokingly, that he would win a round without his punches actually hitting the guy because of his damaged hands. He would make it look like they were hitting him, but he would be pulling them, because he was having hand trouble at that stage. So he jokingly said he would win the round without throwing a proper punch ie. hitting the guy with one.

That was said and reported before the Jackie Graves fight (if memory serves) and all the news accounts of that fight was that it was a very hard fought battle between both guys and that the round in question, the third, was a round with hard exchanges between both, with both getting hit and hitting back. It was a hard fight for Pep, and the myth grew out of that small story that happened before the fight even started. All that talk went out the window when the fight did start and it turned out to be a hard fight for both guys.

Anyway, as to your last point. I think that's Loma's biggest transition problem at the moment. It's a very amateur style. You attack, then you move away, or just pull guard. Rinse and repeat. Loma was very good at it. He still hasn't quite gotten the hang of moving between offence and defence yet. That's why Salido was able to win large stretches of the fight, through pure aggression. Lomas was still stuck in amateur mode, waiting for Salido to finish, rather than using his attack to create his own openings, or using his defense to open Salido up to counter shots. It's a big part of his game that he needs to work on with guys he can beat over his next few defenses maybe.

Rigo had the same problem, and even he still does a bit, though it's not nearly as bad as it once was. Loma is even more so though. He attacks, stops, waits, goes into defense mode by moving or blocking, then waits until it stops and then he attacks again. One problem with it is that it takes a lot of unnecessary energy from you that isn't actively involved in winning the fight. Second is that your offence and defense become one dimensional in the sense that it's a very static form of it. You're not creating opportunities from the opponents attack, or setting offence up based on good defense. It's only done when he has stopped.

A big problem it creates is that when you get tired, your attacking moments become smaller and smaller and they get further apart, because it takes more energy to just launch an all out full frontal attack on someone ready for it. You have to spend a lot of energy trying to open him up while he's on the defensive and actively trying to stop it. It takes less energy to open up on a guy when he has opened himself up through his own offense which then leaves him open, or through your defense opening him up. It's harder to create and find openings when the guy is ready for your attack and knows it's coming. Duran was the best I've. Ever seen at doing that. Using a guys offense, and his own defense to create openings which he would then violently exploit. He rarely just attacked a guy. It always came off his defense, feinting or counter punching.

He might get away with it....oh, he already hasn't. Well, he might get away with it in the future, but it's risky because certain style of the pro game can easily take advantage of those little flaws. Hopefully he fixes it and becomes more fluent in the transition. A huge thing that also fixes is offensive chances and consistency. You don't just attack when the opponent isn't. You can attack when you want, or when the opponent is attacking too. That's often the best way to get a KO as well.

Thank you! Well said. Some need to be taken to school sometimes.

[SlySlickSmooth]

I would note that a difference with Rigo and Loma is the age difference. Rigo is at 33 while Loma is only 26 still. Fairly young and still plenty of time to progress in the professionals.

Victor Ortiz is done at 27

Also I did read that Pep said he wouldn't "throw punches with anger."