Comments Thread For: Cotto Beats Down Martinez, Makes History at MSG

[skillz321]

The two aren't mutually exclusive homie. You can applaud and be happy that Cotto won a fight not a lotta people thought he would win. While also acknowledging that that was a very diminished version of Martinez that he fought.

You can make that argument, but wasn't that the knock on Cotto also? Too many wars? Plaster gloves? He's done? In a sense they are exclusive, because that's the way ppl on this forum act...try and take one part of an argument and troll your way through it....but if you are being genuine, I agree with you in a way....but bottom line, all arguments should be parallel and be taken all together on each side.

[hitking]

I guess it's left up to someones perception but there were no lingering effects of his knee surgeries until he got rocked repeatedly. I've been watching Cotto the same period of time and I don't think it's bittersweet at all....he did what Martinez was supposed to do and maybe his knee did hurt after he got f'd up several times, but that is the nature of the beast....don't get rocked and you can stand up straight, just like he did all training camp, beginning of the first, and rounds 2,3 and 4....not bittersweet at all....just sweet

I'm not implying that Serg has his knee opened up last week and was out there fighting on one leg. He is probably as recovered as he can be. I'm speaking to the fact that 95% of what made a primed Martinez an elite fighter was his mobility. He's not Floyd or Hopkins that can still win at a high level well past their physical primes. Martinez without mobility is a sitting duck. And to me its not making an "excuse" by pointing that out. I woke my whole house up screaming for Cotto in that first round. But I'm not gonna pretend he beat the guy that took the title from Pavlik and damn near killed P-Dub either.

[MRCHOKEaMF]

You can make that argument, but wasn't that the knock on Cotto also? Too many wars? Plaster gloves? He's done? In a sense they are exclusive, because that's the way ppl on this forum act...try and take one part of an argument and troll your way through it....but if you are being genuine, I agree with you in a way....but bottom line, all arguments should be parallel and be taken all together on each side.

You know that aint possible on this forum. lol. The funny thing is you dont hear all these complaints from.....MARTINEZ
but yes they were already preparing for excuses for Cotto the wars and plaster gloves. now its because Martinez was struggling to even walk. lotta laughs

[skillz321]

I'm not implying that Serg has his knee opened up last week and was out there fighting on one leg. He is probably as recovered as he can be. I'm speaking to the fact that 95% of what made a primed Martinez an elite fighter was his mobility. He's not Floyd or Hopkins that can still win at a high level well past their physical primes. Martinez without mobility is a sitting duck. And to me its not making an "excuse" by pointing that out. I woke my whole house up screaming for Cotto in that first round. But I'm not gonna pretend he beat the guy that took the title from Pavlik and damn near killed P-Dub either.

Very good point, and by the way, I enjoy talking to ppl that actually make a good argument!

And yes, you are correct, he did not beat that guy that gutted Pavlik...but Martinez lost to a guy that wasn't even the guy of 2007...so that pretty much makes it even in a sense....both aren't where they were, albeit, Cotto is closer now after a little resurgence....but still, it's kind of the same argument?

[hitking]

You can make that argument wasn't that the knock on Cotto also? Too many wars? Plaster gloves? He's done? In a sense they are exclusive, because that's the way ppl on this forum act...try and take one part of an argument and troll your way through it....but if you are being genuine, I agree with you in a way....but bottom line, all arguments should be parallel and be taken all together on each side.

Well I've never been one that said Cotto was done. During the build up to this one. Several times I pointed out the hypocrisy of many on here who swear to the death that he was washed up and shot when the welterweight champion moved up to fight him. But two years later were calling him a real opponent in his middleweight debut against the middleweight champion.

[skillz321]

You know that aint possible on this forum. lol. The funny thing is you dont hear all these complaints from.....MARTINEZ
but yes they were already preparing for excuses for Cotto the wars and plaster gloves. now its because Martinez was struggling to even walk. lotta laughs

HAHAHAHA!!! No doubt....that's why I usually only read these and laugh, but it seemed like a fun time to say something slightly intelligent, lol.....and you are right...as I read everything leading up to the fight, that's exactly what was said....everyone was saying, don't say this or don't say that when such and such wins!!!! And, of course, everyone said, "we won't"....but in the end....EXCUSES!!!

[skillz321]

Well I've never been one that said Cotto was done. During the build up to this one. Several times I pointed out the hypocrisy of many on here who swear to the death that he was washed up and shot when the welterweight champion moved up to fight him. But two years later were calling him a real opponent in his middleweight debut against the middleweight champion.

That was the best word used so far tonight....honestly, not joking...."HYPOCRISY".....THANK YOU FOR THAT!!!

[radioraheem]

You can make that argument, but wasn't that the knock on Cotto also? Too many wars? Plaster gloves? He's done? In a sense they are exclusive, because that's the way ppl on this forum act...try and take one part of an argument and troll your way through it....but if you are being genuine, I agree with you in a way....but bottom line, all arguments should be parallel and be taken all together on each side.

Exactly! You know how many times we've heard that Cotto is SHOT on this forum? People were even saying he should retire after the Trout loss. They were saying Cotto is cashing out too, he's washed up, etc. Now that their precious Martinez took an L, they pourin excuses on some bartender ****.

[skillz321]

Exactly! You know how many times we've heard that Cotto is SHOT on this forum? People were even saying he should retire after the Trout loss. They were saying Cotto is cashing out too, he's washed up, etc. Now that their precious Martinez took an L, they pourin excuses on some bartender ****.

Exactly....and now all we hear is..."oh, his knee....oh, his age....oh, he's diminished...." even though they said they would not use that as an excuse and Martinez will beat his ass anyway....it's so weird....is it impossible not to be a douchenogle on a forum and just state facts and a valid argument?

[hitking]

Very good point, and by the way, I enjoy talking to ppl that actually make a good argument!

And yes, you are correct, he did not beat that guy that gutted Pavlik...but Martinez lost to a guy that wasn't even the guy of 2007...so that pretty much makes it even in a sense....both aren't where they were, albeit, Cotto is cw after a little resurgence....but still, it's kind of the same argument?

Well even if Cotto is diminished, he's still able to do what made him whatever you think he was at his peak. To me a good comparison is Roy Jones and Hopkins. At their physical peaks, Roy was better. But what Roy depended on to be great was based mostly on physical talent. So once those physical gifts started to fade. He based went from the best fighter ob the planet to a complete bum that was being put to sleep by B and C class fighters in a night. It was pretty predictable that Martinez's decline was gonna be steep.

On a sidenote. To me the most impressive thing about Pacquiao is that he's been able to stay on top ad long as he had fighting in a style that suggest his decline was gonna be steep. Same with Roy. People act like Roy was a here today gone tomorrow flash-n-da-pan because his decline was so sudden. Roy can make a very good argument that he was the P4P King for a decade plus. That's unbelievable.