Miguel Cotto= Injustice

[Fearless Angel]

I decided to make this thread because I think a lot of people don’t give Cotto the respect he deserves. A lot of critics say that he shouldn’t be in the hall of fame or that he’s a borderline hall of famer. They talk about him like he’s just another fighter. I’m not a groupie or a blind fan that supports everything a fighter does. I breakdown Miguel’s entire career, so if you don’t like to read fack off, just kidding . This ATG stuff, my hands are sore after typing all this *****. Damn, I should start a career as a writer. I can make better articles than all this wanna be tough keyboard warriors, zero objectivity puppets………….let me stop, someone may get butthurt.


I think Cotto’s resume at JWW is underrated. A lot of people talk like he fought a bunch of mediocre fighters and his championship run in that division is garbage. I couldn’t disagree more, he fought like 5 undefeated fighters in his run at JWW and not only that, he won those fights in impressive fashion. To me for a young contender or champion coming up that proves a lot more than beating old, shot and smaller fighters. When you fight young undefeated fighters they are hungry, more resilient and they have something to prove. In the process you learn more as a fighter because you’re having tougher fights very early in your career. But of course in this internet era no matter against you win or how you win, people (media and fans) won’t give you credit. A lot of them criticize him because he won a couple of vacant titles, but if he beat a champion for his title they would have said he just beat a paper champion or a weak title holder. To me winning a vacant title shouldn’t matter that much, what should matter most is against who you defend that championship because a lot the champions of today and the past have won vacant titles.


He beat an undefeated Malignaggi (world champion in 2 divisions), undefeated Maussa (world champion) and undefeated Torres (world champion). I remember at that time I wanted Cotto to fight Vivian Harris, who at that moment was one of the top guys in the division, but he got beat by Maussa. I also wanted him to fight Junior Witter another young fighter and one of the top guys. I believe they negotiated that fight but it didn’t come through because of an injury or because they offered Witter the fight on short notice, something like that. Torres beat a prime Kendoll Holt who was like the Lamont Peterson of this era. I know many of you will think that what I’m going to say is blasphemous, but in terms of skills Ricardo Torres reminds me of Lucas Mathysse. Both are big punchers with pretty good skills, the only difference between them is exposure. Mathysse has a big company like Golden Boy behind him that puts him on main events on premium cable channel and in every press conference start saying stuff like he’s gonna be the next Pacquiao, the machine, the beast, etc., and the media and fans start feeding into that ****. Cotto also has wins over decent fighters that were still in their prime like Lavamore Ndou (world champion), Corley (world champion), and Bailey (world champion in 2 divisions).


It makes me laugh when people give Ricky Hatton credit for beating Ben Tackie (who wasn’t even a world champion) and for his horrible performance in his WWE match against Urango. A lot of people don’t remember that Cotto and Hatton were supposed to fight each other for the vacant WBO title. They were ranked # 1 and # 2, but Frank Warren said that he wasn’t interested in making that fight and they were going in another direction. I even remember the british reporters talking about how Hatton wasn’t ready for that fight, even though he had like 20 more fights than Cotto. Cotto’s team said, that if Hatton’s team proposed the best offer to make the fight in the UK they were willing to go to England with no problem. So don’t blame Cotto for that fight not happening. I believe if that fight happened in the last couple of fights of Cotto’s JWW run it would’ve been an interesting fight because Cotto was killing himself to make weight and Hatton had the ability to hurt him. But if they fought in the first part of Cotto’s career at JWW or in the WW division, it wasn’t even a contest who was the better fighter. Cotto is much more skillful and on top of that is bigger and stronger than Hatton.


Kosta Tzyu wasn’t going to fight Cotto either. He was looking to retire and his choices were limited. He had the option to fight a young veteran in Mayweather (who wasn’t a big star at that time), a young up and coming champion in Cotto (who wasn’t a big star in the US either) or a young up and coming champion in Ricky Hatton (who was a big star in the UK). His decision was pretty easy, he chose to make a huge event in Europe with Hatton and made a lot of money. I don’t blame him, if I was his promoter I would’ve done the same thing. Overall, I think Cotto had some good and decent wins at JWW. Cotto fought the majority of the top fighters in that division, and as a fan that’s all you can ask. That’s how he became a great fighter. If you beat and especially dominate B and C class fighters that doesn’t make you a B or C class fighter, that makes you an A class fighter. If you beat another A class fighter in his prime that’s how you become an ATG. So there’s a difference between an A class fighter and an ATG. Kosta Tsyu didn’t became a great fighter by beating a bunch of ATGs or A class fighters during his reign of terror. He had a lot wins against decent and good fighters; he’s biggest accomplishment was beating an undefeated Zab Judah. Wladimir Klitshko is another example, he’s considered an A class fighter and I agree. But people think he’s an ATG and he’s beating a bunch of C class and some B class fighters. I can mention many more examples, but I don’t want to stay here all day.


A lot of people say that Zab Judah is one of Cotto’s best wins and I completely disagree. Judah was just a name and he was coming off back to back losses. I mean you could say that Tzyu broke him mentally and Cotto destroyed him physically and pretty much he was done after that. Maybe that was a decent win but I don’t give him much credit at all for beating Zab. I think his win over an undefeated Quintana is underrated. Quintana beat an undefeated Joel Julio in a fight that he was a huge underdog and nobody expected him to win, so you gotta give him credit. He also had a clear victory over Paul Williams. I truly believe if it wasn’t for injuries, inactivity, bad management he would’ve had a better career. He was an awkward southpaw with pretty good skills and also had some pop in his punches.


Cotto also has clear victory over Shane Mosely. I heard a few people say that the fight should’ve been a draw or Cotto should’ve lost, but that’s being a straight up hater. Yes it was a close competitive fight, but Cotto won at least 8-4. You can make a case that Mosely 5 rounds at most. If Mosley fought the exact same type of fight against Mayweather, he would’ve lost via shutout and the Mayweather groupies would brag about how dominant he was. Cotto outboxed, outhustled and outlanded Mosley throughout the fight. People don’t give him credit how good he was defensively in that fight. You could argue that Mosely was lil bit past prime, but he wasn’t done as a fighter by any means. Before fighting Cotto he dominated Fernando Vargas, Luis Collazo and after fighting Cotto he destroyed Margarito. I also think Mosely was on steroids when he fought Cotto, he probably used steroids the majority of his career. You gotta be naive to think, he only he used steroids against DLH. Even against Margarito I’m sure he was on the juice. You could see the difference in his body between his fights against Margarito and Mayweather.

[-MAKAVELLI-]

[The Gambler1981]

Is he wearing yoga pants?

[Fearless Angel]

I believe 100% that Cotto was cheated in the Margarito fight. The funny thing is I was a fan of both fighters and I was kind of like let the best man win. I didn’t root for anyone in particular, I just enjoyed the fight. What kind of trainer brings “old gauze” to a new fight? Why did his trainer said he was guilty and that Margarito had nothing to do with it? Guilty of what, for putting too much gauze or tape in his wraps? Why his handwraps had the same stain, in the same spot before the Mosley fight that he had after the Cotto fight? Do y’all really believe that a professional fighter with years of experience don’t know what his trainer is doing with him? I mean Margarito wasn’t or isn’t the only fighter that is cheating or trying to get an advantage before a fight, especially in boxing which is full of low lives scum. This not only happens in boxing, it happens in every sport. Look at all the baseball players that got busted with PED’s and still received big contracts after that, so to them is worth the risk. People do anything for money and fame. Boxing is the most corrupt sport in the world and it starts with commissioners, promoters, managers, judges, etc. You can trust absolutely nobody. Boxers don’t get punished for cheating, maybe you can get a slap on the wrist if you’re ****** enough to get caught. But that’s it, there’s no consequences. The fighters do whatever the hell they want because they know no one will do anything about it. I also believe that Margarito took stimulants before every fight to get more pumped and hyped up. If you guys remember before the Pacquiao fight he wanted to take some pills, but they didn’t allowed him and eventually he took a few cups of coffee. So the guy had that mindset of trying to do anything to gain an advantage. Stimulants are dangerous, especially in a sport like boxing it can give you a lot of benefits, and he probably took other kinds of PEDs, who knows. He delivered a long, brutal beating on Cotto and took the majority of his prime. Cotto bled from every orifice in his body. He destroyed Cotto physically and mentally. You can say right now that Cotto is recovered mentally, but in a lot of his fights after Margarito he was hesitant to throw punches, especially when he pinned his opponents against the ropes. Before Margarito he just let his hands go, it was like an instinct to him. Physically you can still see the effects of that fight. Before Margarito he took punches from big punchers and his face didn’t breakdown. Now in every fight after a couple of rounds his face is all busted, even against guys that are not big punchers.

Clottey is another underrated win in Cotto’s career. A lot of people thought that Clottey won that fight and I don’t have a problem with that. I was a very close fight that could’ve gone either way, but it wasn’t a robbery. IMO Cotto won 7-5. He took the fight in the last 2 rounds. But I don’t have a problem with someone scoring the fight 6-6 or 7-5 in favor of Clottey. That was supposed to be a unification fight. But the IBF with their ****** mandatory rules stripped Clottey of his title. Those suckers wanted Clottey to fight an unknown guy from an unknown country and have a meaningless title defense. I believe Clottey, like Quintana, if it wasn’t for outside the ring stuff, he would’ve had a much better career. He came very, very close to beating Margarito and Cotto. I remember Margarito said in an interview a long time ago that hitting Clottey was like hitting a wall. I mean the guy weighed in the 170s on fight night, he was built like a tank. He’s a very skillful fighter and I believe he had stamina problems because he was killing himself to make weight.

Pacquiao and his team receive a lot of blame for the catchweight in the Cotto fight, but really that’s not their fault. That’s Cotto’s team fault for accepting the catchweight. It affected Cotto physically, but instead of selling themselves for a couple of more thousands, they should’ve done the honorable thing and protect the best interests of Cotto. That’s where you can tell who has a good team around that really cares about the fighter and who’s there just for the money. Also, it didn’t help that he had a waterboy as his trainer. IMO Pacquiao= Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones, etc. Yes they broke records and were considered the greatest of the great, but everyone knows they cheated to get to that level. Pacquiao gave me a lot of reasons to believe he was on PEDs and it’s not just all the excuses he made. But I’m not getting into that, I had enough of that topic. Pacquiao took what Cotto had left of his prime.

Everyone gave Cotto absolutely no credit for beating Yuri Foreman, but they don’t remember that he was coming from a brutal beating at the hands of Pacquiao. Who do you guys expected him to fight, a prime Segio Martinez? Nobody knew what Cotto had left and most people were saying that he was done. At that moment it was a good win against a young undefeated champion. Now looking back, it was a decent win because Foreman hasn’t accomplished anything after that fight. A lot of critics also say that he fought a past prime or shot Margarito . They were on the same boat, Cotto took 2 career ending beatings at the hands of Pacquiao and Margarito himself; he also took a lot of punches in a very tough fight against Clottey. Cotto is no spring chicken, so that argument is null. Instead of demanding that ****** catchweight, what Cotto should’ve done was force Margarito to take random drug testing.

In the Mayweather fight I believe Cotto won 5 rounds and I don’t care what anybody says. When I’m scoring a fight I don’t pay attention to what the media says, the commentators, the fans, the name of the fighters, etc. because I have my own opinion. I’m not a puppet of anybody’s opinion. People get influence all the time with what the commentators are saying and the reaction of the crowd. I only pay attention to who’s landing the punches, I don’t care who throws more, who’s more aggressive or who’s moving more around the ring. What matter most at the end of the day is punches landed and I’m not talking about compubox numbers. The difference in punches landed between them round by round was very minimal. They both landed a lot of sneaky punches on the inside and rarely hit each other with flush shots. People put Mayweather in such a high pedestal like he’s untouchable, and every close round you gotta give it to him because well, he’s Mayweather. If that was Pedro vs Tyrone fighting a lot of people would’ve said that it was a close controversial fight that could’ve gone either way. I’m not saying that it was a robbery or anything like that, IMO Mayweather won. But a lot of idiots say that Mayweather dominated and that’s just ridiculous. Also the Mayweather groupies say that Cotto only was competitive because he fought a past prime Mayweather. LOL, if that’s the case, Mayweather fought a corpse of Miguel Cotto. If they fought in their prime, I believe it would’ve been a 50/50 fight.

The Trout fight I also think Cotto won 5 rounds. It was a close competitive fight. In this fight and in a lot of other fights that doesn’t involve Mayweather that are very similar is when you see the hypocrisy of his fans. They say the Trout fight was close and competitive, but the Mayweather fight was a blowout and complete domination . Cotto did a lot of more damage in the Mayweather fight than the Trout fight.

I expect Cotto to lose against Sergio. I think Martinez is too big, strong, can punch and also smart inside the ring. That’s a dangerous combination. But what I don’t understand is the people that say Cotto only wins if Sergio is injured, completely ignoring the fact that Cotto is much smaller than him and has received 2 career ending beatings. But if Golvokin fights and beats Sergio, they would scream to the high heavens how great Golvokin is. A lot of people also say that Cotto had no choice but to fight Martinez to make money, that makes no sense at all. Cotto is one of the few fighters that can fight whoever he wants and make very good money. He can make any of this B and C class welterweights move up in weight to fight him and still make very good money. He has the power to that. But no, he chose the MW champion of the world.

Do I think Cotto is an ATG? No, he was robbed of that opportunity by Margarito. Do I think he’s a hall of famer? Absolutely, without a doubt. If Cotto was from the black and white era, he would be considered an ATG. Look at Aaron Pryor for example, his best win is a past prime Alexis Arguello and on top of that he cheated to get that victory. The media and a lot of fans call him an ATG. I guess the media and fans like fighters that give them a sense of invincibility, no matter if they’re cheaters and duckers. I’m surprised Cotto’s still able to dominate good and decent fighters, and be competitive against great fighters, after having a lot of tough fights throughout his career. Most of the time when fighters take a career ending beating, they fall apart and start losing against decent and mediocre fighters. That tells a lot about Cotto’s perseverance and his will to be great.

[BoxingGenius27]

How TF do you find somethin like that

[-MAKAVELLI-]

Is he wearing yoga pants?

nothing like yoga pants to highlight baseball sized nuts

[MaskedMurderer]

none of your pics every work for me man.

[BoxingGenius27]

Good post TS

I only had to read 2-3 lines to be able to see where you were going and tell I would agree with you.

You have great substance which is more I can say for 95% of these pac smellin b1tch's runnin around here.

Green sent

[The Gambler1981]

nothing like yoga pants to highlight baseball sized nuts

Yoga pants on a woman with a tight ass and nice legs is about the greatest thing on Earth.

Yoga pants on a boxer jumping rope is about the worst.

The yoga pants giveth and the yoga pants taketh away.

[-MAKAVELLI-]

none of your pics every work for me man.

i got it from the lounge, bud...copy the URL and open a new window