If Wladimir beats Wilder, Stiverne, Fury, Jennings & Pulev, is he a top 10 ATG HW?

[4Corners]

You dont have a clue.

Ok. Where do you rank him if he quit today?

I didn't make anything up man....just letting you know....that I know

H2H Wlad is without question probably Top 10 All Time.

I couldn't place his resume for his era too high though.

Probably not quite Top 15, but inside the Top 20 for sure. I'd have to look at everyone's resume in full to place him exactly at a spot, but somewhere around there in the mid teens.

[BattlingNelson]

I didn't make anything up man....just letting you know....that I know

H2H Wlad is without question probably Top 10 All Time.

I couldn't place his resume for his era too high though.

Probably not quite Top 15, but inside the Top 20 for sure. I'd have to look at everyone's resume in full to place him exactly at a spot, but somewhere around there in the mid teens.

Then give the names of those you rank above Wlad in no particular order.

[Guest]

Fought Bernard Hopkins for the IBF MW title... Hopkins didnt lose for 12 years after that.

You can't argue with facts that like that, haters. Hopkins went on to fight a murderer's row at MW, facing the likes of William Bo James and Steve Frank... none of those fearsome guys could replicate Roy's feat.

Ring Rankings at Light Heavyweight in 2003 his last year as Champion.

Roy Jones Jr., Champion

1. Antonio Tarver
2. Julio Cesar Gonzalez
3. Dariusz Michalczewski
4. Glen Johnson
5. Eric Harding
6. Clinton Woods
7. Silvio Branco
8. Montell Griffin
9. Richard Hall
10. Mehdi Sahnoune

Look at that! Clinton Woods, Silvio Branco, Richard Hall and Mehdi Sahnoune all in the top ten. The division was STACKED back then.

And Roy didn't duck any of them... in fact, he had four fights with Tarver and Johnson.

Wait, what?

[Weltschmerz]

There's nothing wrong with my arguments. The problem is, your belief, which is:

"Ali was God, he's above criticism, don't mention details like his being KOed by little Henry Cooper and cheating to buy time between rounds to recover"

Some people worship those boxers of the past, and make them out to be mythological gods.

People discredit Wlad's wins over Byrd because he started at light heavyweight, but praise Joe Louis' win over Billy Conn, who started at lightweight (135 pounds).

Tony Galento (who was shorter and fatter than Arreola ever was) had 20 losses, yet he floored and nearly KOed Joe Louis.

Was Louis really the mythological god people make him out to be?

Max Schmeling, who had lost to Jack Taylor (37-39) and was KOed by a (0-0-1) guy named Max Diekmann, a journeyman named Gipsy Daniels (47 losses!) and Larry Gain, knocked out Joe Louis!

This puts things into a proper perspective. The posters ridiculing Wlad in this thread should be ashamed of calling themselves boxing fans.

[Guest]

This puts things into a proper perspective. The posters ridiculing Wlad in this thread should be ashamed of calling themselves boxing fans.

Too right, Weltz, I bet they'll feel like the scales have fallen from their eyes after reading that slice of wisdom.

You don't beat Jean Marc Mormeck at heavyweight if you're not an ATG.

[-Kev-]

Beating Jennings and Wilder doesn't mean much. They have done nothing.

Stiverne would be a decent win. But beating Arreola doesn't make him good, Arreola has been beaten by Vitali, Adamek, Stiverne 2x and his best win ever is Seth Mitchell who was knocked out in 2 rounds by Banks.

Fury and Pulev would be the better wins from those 5.

I don't see how you think these are rank enhancing wins but then turn around and not give Floyd more credit as a WW for his Mosley, Guerrero, and Maidana wins. You have to be fair with every boxer, not just Wlad and those fighters you like.

[Guest]

No, he didn't... dropping 20lbs to fight Tarver deserves credit, then giving an immediate rematch, being TKOd, then fighting glen johnson directly after that and being out cold, taking a year off and coming back to try and fight tarver again with no tune up... doesn't deserve some credit?

How did you score the first Tarver fight, Reed? I was watching with The Duke doing commentary, so I had ******ation in my ear, but it looked to me like Roy got lucky on the cards that night.

And I was always a Royston fan, pisstakes aside, but a part of me died when he showed he was just content to go the distance and take the L in the last Tarver bout.

Even against Slapsie... Slapsie was standing in front of him with his hands down in the last round, and he didn't even TRY. Now, granted, he was shot to **** then, but he was standing off going "I'mma not show heart, dawg... I might take some more slaps. Pensacolainthehouse!"

[Weltschmerz]

Too right, Weltz, I bet they'll feel like the scales have fallen from their eyes after reading that slice of wisdom.

You don't beat Jean Marc Mormeck at heavyweight if you're not an ATG.

Mormeck was crap, most of Wlad's own supporters think the same. The point is that Ali and Joe Louis had some crappy opponents too, and was put on the canvas by guys you should also call bums when you keep posting the way you do.

I know, I know, you're just joking, but it get's old.

[The Hammer]

Beating Jennings and Wilder doesn't mean much. They have done nothing.

Stiverne would be a decent win. But beating Arreola doesn't make him good, Arreola has been beaten by Vitali, Adamek, Stiverne 2x and his best win ever is Seth Mitchell who was knocked out in 2 rounds by Banks.

Fury and Pulev would be the better wins from those 5.

I don't see how you think these are rank enhancing wins but then turn around and not give Floyd more credit as a WW for his Mosley, Guerrero, and Maidana wins. You have to be fair with every boxer, not just Wlad and those fighters you like.

I apply the same arguments against Floyd that people use to discredit the Klitschko, to make a point.

The point: you can discredit and ridicule ANY boxer's resume.

It's easy for people who hate Wlad to just say "all his opponents were bums and so I'll never consider him to be an ATG HW"

But if they were being honest they'd say "He dominated many very good opponents, but I'll never consider Wlad to be an ATG HW because I hate him"

[Guest]

I truthfully had it close 7-5 for Roy... I thought Roy really gutted it in the last 3 rounds and he needed them.



Dude was clearly shook... he was coming off two knockouts and the guy in front of him was one of the guys who knocked him out... hard to be a mental giant in that situation.. but yeah I was disappointed.



Yeah, and I think he believed that before the fight... but when you get in there and you just cant pull the trigger, or you dont have confidence you're going to land you find yourself not punching as much, and getting hit more than you're used too... It's one thing if you're getting hit, but the other guy is there to be hit for you... and it's another to be 39, and having trouble landing clean on the other guy.

I mean, he was coming off a win over prince badi ajamu (lol), anthony hanshaw (lol, I saw that ringside), and tito (lol saw that ringside too)

The guy was way past his sell-by date in all these occasions, but I think I just hoped that, deep down, when the chips were against him, he'd find that inner resolve.

Danny Williams doesn't have anywhere near his skill or natural ability - I joke, of course, he beat prime '88 Tyson thanks to time travel - and I cringed when he took a one-sided ass-kicking from Vitali. But when they asked him not to quit and he said "who's quitting?" I got some blood flowing back into my bell end over it.

It was a shame with Roy, because Tarver seemed to gas and look stunned himself in the third bout, and he couldn't go that extra gear. I don't blame him against Calzaghe so much as he'd probably seen the brutal beating he'd given to Peter Manfredo Jr., and didn't want to risk his health.


Here's a Danny Williams video, don't know if you've ever seen it, I'm not sure I've put it up before: