The Greatness of Wladimir Klitschko

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Let's be fair to Haye's opponents,

They were all giant HW's, much bigger than Haye.

Of course Nic was a good win, how the **** else is Haye supposed to beat him? Tsk!

Barret you bash because he became a kind of gatekeeper but really Barret was a very good boxer and had much promise. You can excuse past boxers like Carl Williams and Joe Walcott for bum records but big Barrett not?

Ruiz is a veteran and former champ and difficult opponent to beat sometimes because of his grappling.

Harrison was a big boxer with decent skills, he would have beaten Frazier and Norton no doubt.

Chisora is also a good fighter, he certainly is no bum.

He was a good win for WK, stop bashing decent boxers to belittle WK's legacy.

Can't be anything other than trolling......surely?

[StarshipTrooper]

Can't be anything other than trolling......surely?

Google HWeightblogger: He's got an entire blog dedicated to that cranial diarrhea. He's dead serious. In much the same way that a spastic takes his licking of windows seriously :|

[M Bison]

Google HWeightblogger: He's got an entire blog dedicated to that cranial diarrhea. He's dead serious. In much the same way that a spastic takes his licking of windows seriously :|

Why not tell them to do a little google search up on this guy who is called
Poet682006

He is a dedicated member of the forum Gayspeak

So did you manage to find a handsome young black man to fill that cobwebbed **** crevasse of yours

[M Bison]

Ziggy gone quiet... Woops!

[GeneralZod]

Why not tell them to do a little google search up on this guy who is called
Poet682006

He is a dedicated member of the forum Gayspeak

So did you manage to find a handsome young black man to fill that cobwebbed **** crevasse of yours

You're trying a little too hard there. You're that bent out of shape about Wlad not being considered the unbeatable undisputed king of all fighters ever, you just whip out corny ass insults.

[Elroy1]

Please, tell me how it's terrible you idiot. Anyone who remotely thinks Vitali's resume is terrible knows nothing about the sport and has zero common sense.

When being 15-2 (12 ko's) in title fights is terrible, the earth will cease to spin in it's orbit.

Better yet.......

....Our debate is over on something so ****** being said.

**** off.

Vitali does have among the best HW resumes of all time.

I can't believe anybody would dispute that.

Welcome aboard brother

[Elroy1]

Ok I posted several pages ago now on this active thread on WHY the skills have improved, now lets look at how.

Please note, neither to my paper, nor anything our colleague BoxingGoat offered on the subject of skills progress, has anything been offered in return except the same question reposted.

You can SEE clearly by the footage of past fights and the footage of modern fights that the past guys fought terribly by comparison. Wild shots, uncoordinated, scrappy dirty infighting. Not the same emphasis on timing and punch quality that there is today.

Anybody who is not intimately involved in boxing who watches can SEE this and report the same things. All this diatripe of things like Liston had the best jab, Louis had the best right hand, Walcott the best defence, is all romantic hogwash when you actually LOOK at it. Same as current boxers, all the rubbish that modern oppoennts can't throw a straight punch and show regressive skills is just that, rubbish too.

How? Because the skills training the past fighters took part in was of a far lower quality than that in modern times.

Take sparring, today coaches coach their fighters with the techniques as described earlier that are more important today, the outside game, body movement, slipping, countering. No doubt coaches of the past did similar too but these days they are far more in tune with how best to organise sparring sessions to work on their weaknesses. They are structured sparring sessions not just mock fights. This is supplemented with a much higher level and volume of mittwork that was not prevalent in the old days.

Even in the 70's some coaches used this valuable tool minimally and ppl are surprised that it's only recently that coaches seen it as among the most valuable tools.

But the OTNB community responds that mitts is not fighting, all this flashy mitt work that modern boxers do doesn't correspond to the ring. BULL****. Mitts wont substitute sparring, nothing does, but it has advantages over sparring in several aspects. It allows the athlete to drill their shots, combinations and defensive manuevers over and over until perfection without the threat of getting hit and can be presented at speeds and angles faster and more varied that an opponent presents. This muscle/mind memory that develops carries over to the sparring practice beautifully with proper coaching and is why todays boxers can throw far more better quality stuff from different angles with great effect. If any are slower than previous boxers it's simply because they are so much heavier.

And think about the advancements of video, today coaches use recorded footage of their fighters and their opponents fights to pinpoint and work on defects in their own performance and in their opponents to exploit and form a gameplan, training plan around that. This simply wasn't available back then.

There are other things too like past boxers wasting their time on speed bag etc which were proved to be of not much value to a boxer except on media day etc.

Sorry but we don't see those methods used in the past.

[Elroy1]

And finally what about a direct look at past champions skills...

George Foreman- could barely even box!
Ron Lyle- displayed no more skills than Foreman
Joe Frazier- came straight forward with a 1 dimensional attack that was at times very sloppy, not very skilled, easy to hit, leads with the face.
Muhammad Ali 60's- fast shots with nothing on them, couldn't sit down on his shots, spent most of the fight running away from trouble, very poor defence which was relieved by the fact he was very fast.
Muhammad Ali 70's- Could not keep an opponent off him, threw pawing shots as usual with nothing on them, had no reflexes left and couldn't avoid a punch if his career depended on it.
Liston- highly uncoordinated slow plodder
Rocky Marciano- plodder
Joe Louis- great skills for his time, rudimentary boxer-puncher, still plodding, couldn't avoid the right.
Joe Walcott- rudimentary defence fighter, couldn't be that good with bum record.

And we get the picture, these are how the "skills" of former HW champs would be viewed today.

[GeneralZod]

And finally what about a direct look at past champions skills...

George Foreman- could barely even box!
Ron Lyle- displayed no more skills than Foreman
Joe Frazier- came straight forward with a 1 dimensional attack that was at times very sloppy, not very skilled, easy to hit, leads with the face.
Muhammad Ali 60's- fast shots with nothing on them, couldn't sit down on his shots, spent most of the fight running away from trouble, very poor defence which was relieved by the fact he was very fast.
Muhammad Ali 70's- Could not keep an opponent off him, threw pawing shots as usual with nothing on them, had no reflexes left and couldn't avoid a punch if his career depended on it.
Liston- highly uncoordinated slow plodder
Rocky Marciano- plodder
Joe Louis- great skills for his time, rudimentary boxer-puncher, still plodding, couldn't avoid the right.
Joe Walcott- rudimentary defence fighter, couldn't be that good with bum record.

And we get the picture, these are how the "skills" of former HW champs would be viewed today.

Yeah corrie sanders is in my top ten all time

[betmen]

Holyshyt! never thougt this thread will have 1000+ post, great job guys