Official Appreciation Thread: WAR Marciano!!! A True Champion and ATG

['b']

Eddie Murphy was on a roll in this skit..

That whole movie was pretty damn good - Eddie Murphy in his prime was something else, and that might be my favourite scene just because how accurate it is and relelvant it will always be

[Marchegiano]

It's funny you bring up the sword and shield analogy, because I like to use a spear and shield analogy for the philly shell variation I was taught and use.

Warrior boxing!

[LoadedWraps]

Warrior boxing!

I mean, it's a combat sport lol. People act like because we add some rules and gear, it's all of the sudden less violent, or primal, it's not.

And looking back, under the tutelage of my master, when we were in "escuela de combate", our drills were eerily similar to how I've seen drills depicted for gladiators in the past, and similar to our methodology of drill repetition in the army.

In the army we believed in "train how you fight" and if you apply this to boxing, it's a good thing.

[Marchegiano]

I mean, it's a combat sport lol. People act like because we add some rules and gear, it's all of the sudden less violent, or primal, it's not.

And looking back, under the tutelage of my master, when we were in "escuela de combate", our drills were eerily similar to how I've seen drills depicted for gladiators in the past, and similar to our methodology of drill repetition in the army.

In the army we believed in "train how you fight" and if you apply this to boxing, it's a good thing.

It would be fantastic to hear an actual historian's take on it, but, as best I can tell quite a lot of boxing is more cyclical than progressive and what techniques are used has more to do with the audience watching them than their usefulness.


So, for example early Greek boxing is rather similar to present day boxing. Soft gloves, four major championships, pretty strict ruling authority. The training facilities are very similar, heavybags, mits, coaches, shadow boxing, sparring ect. They even begin training as boys and teens and had amatuer and pro leagues.

Then when it gets to the Roman period boxing becomes more brutal, less similar to present boxing and more similar to bare knuckle. The Romans had gloves that were weaponized similar to how American bare knuckle sometimes featured hardened gloved. The Romans allowed eye gouging and castration. The Greeks would have seen this as an affront to Apollo, but in the Chesapeake area of ******ia one of our earliest laws on record makes eye gouging and castration a felony about fifty years before the US rebels against the king because their honor duels featured a form of boxing that allowed eye gouging, castration, and even tongues being cut out.

Also, the inclusion and exclusion or wrestling in boxing.

For the Greeks there was none allowed. Boxing was a striking sport more similar to now.

To the later Romans and bare knuckle era boxers a bit of wrestling is ok and expected in boxing.

As far as gladiator drill goes, hit the nail on the head best I can tell.

I don't know much about gladiator boxing because the gladiators were not as glorified as the olympic champions so there's a lot less history to look at with them and it's much more vague. That said, I can tell you the Spartans invented boxing for war. They felt like helmets were for women Boxing was just a military practice to get their soldiers prepared for a battlefield without any helmets. Quick shields and swords don't need helmets.

Eventually the sport evolved out of the Spartan training, but, since Spartans never surrender and the other Greeks thought it was bad sportsmanship the Spartans did not participate in the sport version of boxing and that's where you get the separation of sword play and sport.

So, by the time swords fade in usefulness boxing had already been using their drills for a few millennia. The Europeans rediscover boxing during to renaissance but we fail to connect it to war or sword play until the 20th century. Long after modern boxing was already very popular and swordplay, or sword based warfare, had already become boring old history.

Also Dambe claims a connection to ancient african shield and spear warfare, but, I know next to nothing about it.

You ain't wrong bubba, I don't reckon anyway.

edit- I forgot to connect them points cause I babbled. My point was it all more or less started with Sparta. The Greeks had boxing similar to ours because they liked to see boxing similar to ours. The Romans and bare knuckle guys wanted something bloodier, but, that's just as Spartan based as the Greek or modern version of the sport. It isn't until the 1790s boxing gets influences that drastically change boxing theory from a techniques and exercises perspective. Today boxing has loads of influences but it isn't hard to see the base is Spartan.

[LoadedWraps]

It would be fantastic to hear an actual historian's take on it, but, as best I can tell quite a lot of boxing is more cyclical than progressive and what techniques are used has more to do with the audience watching them than their usefulness.


So, for example early Greek boxing is rather similar to present day boxing. Soft gloves, four major championships, pretty strict ruling authority. The training facilities are very similar, heavybags, mits, coaches, shadow boxing, sparring ect. They even begin training as boys and teens and had amatuer and pro leagues.

Then when it gets to the Roman period boxing becomes more brutal, less similar to present boxing and more similar to bare knuckle. The Romans had gloves that were weaponized similar to how American bare knuckle sometimes featured hardened gloved. The Romans allowed eye gouging and castration. The Greeks would have seen this as an affront to Apollo, but in the Chesapeake area of ******ia one of our earliest laws on record makes eye gouging and castration a felony about fifty years before the US rebels against the king because their honor duels featured a form of boxing that allowed eye gouging, castration, and even tongues being cut out.

Also, the inclusion and exclusion or wrestling in boxing.

For the Greeks there was none allowed. Boxing was a striking sport more similar to now.

To the later Romans and bare knuckle era boxers a bit of wrestling is ok and expected in boxing.

As far as gladiator drill goes, hit the nail on the head best I can tell.

I don't know much about gladiator boxing because the gladiators were not as glorified as the olympic champions so there's a lot less history to look at with them and it's much more vague. That said, I can tell you the Spartans invented boxing for war. They felt like helmets were for women Boxing was just a military practice to get their soldiers prepared for a battlefield without any helmets. Quick shields and swords don't need helmets.

Eventually the sport evolved out of the Spartan training, but, since Spartans never surrender and the other Greeks thought it was bad sportsmanship the Spartans did not participate in the sport version of boxing and that's where you get the separation of sword play and sport.

So, by the time swords fade in usefulness boxing had already been using their drills for a few millennia. The Europeans rediscover boxing during to renaissance but we fail to connect it to war or sword play until the 20th century. Long after modern boxing was already very popular and swordplay, or sword based warfare, had already become boring old history.

Also Dambe claims a connection to ancient african shield and spear warfare, but, I know next to nothing about it.

You ain't wrong bubba, I don't reckon anyway.

edit- I forgot to connect them points cause I babbled. My point was it all more or less started with Sparta. The Greeks had boxing similar to ours because they liked to see boxing similar to ours. The Romans and bare knuckle guys wanted something bloodier, but, that's just as Spartan based as the Greek or modern version of the sport. It isn't until the 1790s boxing gets influences that drastically change boxing theory from a techniques and exercises perspective. Today boxing has loads of influences but it isn't hard to see the base is Spartan.

An ATG post right here boyos. I lol'd at helmets are for women. Such a Spartan take, and we had this mentality too.

[Marchegiano]

An ATG post right here boyos. I lol'd at helmets are for women. Such a Spartan take, and we had this mentality too.

Yeah those Spartans were pretty incredible. It's too bad Greece doesn't have much interest in boxing today.


Thanks bud.