The oldschool of boxing is overrated

[BigAlexSand]

No disrespect to the old boys, they're warriors, but as I study their resumes, they really DOES seem less impressive than the Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfields of modern times.

Frazier: He had 1 great win, Ali. To who he lost the two rematches. His second best win Quarry, a guy with a very flawed resume, and if anyone today had a loss like the one he Frazier had to Foreman back then, it would be considered "exposed".

Jerry Quarry: Lost to journeymen right and left and his best win was Earnie Shavers...

Earnie Shavers: He lost to journeymen right and left, got knocked out in round 1 by Quarry...

Rocky Marciano: His KO percentage and undefeated record seems impressive, but he got no great wins at all, we could hail Deontay Wilder today like many are hailing Marciano...

Just some examples. It's as if the old fighters are being hyped a lot to make each other seem better by beating each other. But we had guys like Lewis in modern times with far better resumes and more clear top quality wins.

I just don't get why so many prefer oldschool boxing, although yes, Ali and Foreman would both probably be on top today, but guys like Frazier, Shavers and Quarry would probably not even beat Holyfield... I'm trying to be realistic here.

Consider this... If today's boxer where in the 20's - 5'11 would they be as successful with the lack of training that is today?....... or would the great fighters of the past with their natural talent move to this day of age and have the new/great training techniques become greats...

I believe you put many of the fighters in the past with the same training as the past greats; these fighter would be the mediocre fighters you claim are nothing spectacular. The greats of the past if put in this age and given the great training we have now they would dominant with no question. Robinson would clean up welterweight to light-heavy. .. Marciano could move from light heavy to heavyweight as well as Dempsey. Archie Moore would have KO'D Kovalov and Stevenson.

[Citizen Koba]

Consider this... If today's boxer where in the 20's - 5'11 would they be as successful with the lack of training that is today?....... or would the great fighters of the past with their natural talent move to this day of age and have the new/great training techniques become greats...

I believe you put many of the fighters in the past with the same training as the past greats; these fighter would be the mediocre fighters you claim are nothing spectacular. The greats of the past if put in this age and given the great training we have now they would dominant with no question. Robinson would clean up welterweight to light-heavy. .. Marciano could move from light heavy to heavyweight as well as Dempsey. Archie Moore would have KO'D Kovalov and Stevenson.

Maybe...but we just don't know. There is simply no way of making a direct comparison.

I also like to think that the greats of the past would also be considered amongst the greats of any era, allowing for the changes in the sport. Certainly they were exceptional individuals, just as the best fighters of today are, but any attempts to make H2H comparisons are meaningless.

Arguments over the historical relevence of Floyd or Pac or Wlad are best left to the boxing fans of the future (who I'm sure will also try to make H2H comparisons with the best of their time) - the only certainty is that they too, will still be arguing over the decline of the sport as have pundits for the last century.

[Blueduck]

In virtually any quantitatively measurable sport, the modern athlete will jump higher, run faster, throw further etc.. I read one time that Jesse Owens Gold medal winning time would have placed him in 4th place, of the WOMENS division in the most recent Olympics. If not true, it's likely close. It is no knock on his greatness though.

In addition to nutrition/science etc.. it's just that the newer guys are building all their training, tactics and strategies ON the knowledge and experience of the guys who came before them. Those earlier guys do not have that full advantage.

To dominate your era, and be talked about a couple eras later as still being competitive (Like Ali, Louis, Leonard, Robinson, etc..) is about as much as you can hope to achieve.

[Blueduck]

Another factor I don't hear people talk about much is that you cannot really rate a modern fighter, sometimes until well after their career is over, to get full view of who they fought.

For example if Floyd M. retired for good tomorrow, and Canelo went on to win 50 straight bouts over the next ten years, it improves Floyds legacy. He beat a young all time great HOF'er. But if Canelo loses his next five fights in a row, and retires, then there is no real bump for Floyds legacy from him beating him. Nothing he can affect, yet it makes a difference in how the boxing historians will view him.

[therealpugilist]

fighters in the past fought more often and more fights, but in modern boxing fighters either get protected or thrown to the wolves early and after fight 20 are fighting world class guys


Look at the guy in my avatar, one of the all time greats in somes top5 and others top 10 but he doesnt have many wins over great fighter. 229-11 he fought a lot of decent guys but plenty of mediocre guys. Saddler, Harold Dade, great bantamweight Manuel Ortiz, Paddy Demarco was decent and world champion, Sal Bartolo was the nba champion(yes aplhabet titles were back then), and chalky wright were the best he fought but in almost 250 fights his overall level of competition is inferior to those that came after him.

He wasnt in the deepest era at 126, he fought often, looked awesome but as one of his biggest fans he is a bit overrated

[BennyST]

maybe he meant prime Wladimir?

put some pics when wlad was 15 and lost to some skinny 14 year old

So let me get this straight....you're suggesting that a long time champion with nearly 50 fights over a decade, around ten of those championship fights against other champions, at a physical peak of around 30 years old is not in his prime?

Riiiiiiiight.

[BennyST]

In virtually any quantitatively measurable sport, the modern athlete will jump higher, run faster, throw further etc.. I read one time that Jesse Owens Gold medal winning time would have placed him in 4th place, of the WOMENS division in the most recent Olympics. If not true, it's likely close. It is no knock on his greatness though.

In addition to nutrition/science etc.. it's just that the newer guys are building all their training, tactics and strategies ON the knowledge and experience of the guys who came before them. Those earlier guys do not have that full advantage.

To dominate your era, and be talked about a couple eras later as still being competitive (Like Ali, Louis, Leonard, Robinson, etc..) is about as much as you can hope to achieve.

Boxers don't fight a clock or try to break a time.

They have to punch another human in the face over and over, and try not get hit back.

It's a primitive sport that has no comparison with timed, individual or team sports. The comparison is absurd.

Just to take it further, if what you suggest was the case, then fighters like Antonio Margarito would never, in a million years, have beaten clearly greater athletic opponents. That's not what boxing is about though. He simply enforced his will, broke through someone else's and became champion by fighting them. If you put the Maravilla that Marg beat in a foot race, swimming, cycling, basketball etc etc, he'd come out on top in every aspect. You put them in a ring together and tell them to fight until one can't anymore, so many different factors come into play that don't relate to other sports....and Maravilla got KTFO.

If you put many top boxers in timed type sports, I guarantee you they wouldn't do that well. They are fighters, not athletes. Salido wouldn't be a good athlete, but he's a warrior.

[BennyST]

Roberto Duran was at his best some 40 odd years ago. Name one fighter at lightweight today that would have the slightest chance.....

[therealpugilist]

Roberto Duran was at his best some 40 odd years ago. Name one fighter at lightweight today that would have the slightest chance.....

None today because its in a weak era...but fighters that came after his era that have a chance are Whitaker, Mayweather, ODLH, Mosely, and JCC

[boxingbrain28]

I'm about to speak blasphemy on these boards.

Robinson would be schooled too. And that's saying a lot considering Robinson was a lot bigger.

OHHHH! you went there, but yea many of the old timers love to hype up the fighters from years past.