Is Joe Frazier really an ATG?

[- Ram Raid -]

Great names to add to the list, also I'd add in Jones, I know he was almost shot by then but Frazier was still a novice yet he beat Jones up, this is the same guy who gave a young Ali fits and wobbled hi ma couple times as well.

Good call.

You can't unpack a fighter's career (let alone de-construct it into oblivion) without having any actual knowledge of the people that he's fought.

The word 'resume' gets banded around an awful lot in an attempt to give ill informed statements some validity. In too many cases there's a substitution of knowledge for Numberwang.

George Chuvalo is a prime example of that on Frazier's record. If you substitute knowledge for Numberwang then stopping him isn't anything special. But, if you know what the man brought to the ring, then it becomes an indication of just how good Frazier was.

A person can scan boxrec till they're blue in the face, if they don't know what those names and numbers pertain to then we end up reading statements like this:

"He's known for getting absolutely destroyed by George Foreman and for losing a trilogy to Muhammad Ali, probably the greatest HW of all times."

The TS doesn't realise, that isn't what Joe Frazier is known for. That's what he knows him for. Because, evidently, there is a massive void in his knowledge.

[Mr. Philadel]

Smoking Joe is an certified ATG in every sense of the meaning....if you really loved the sport you'd love a fighter like Smoking Joe!!

Big George trucked him in 2 rounds....Dos Rounds!!....Joe fought him AGAIN...something today's HW champs wouldn't dare do....Wlad never attempted to avenge his losses until Brewster was damn near blind....speaking of being blind....Joe was fighting Ali blind in Manilla.....a little more swaying from Joe to the great Eddie Futch is what stopped history from recording Ali quitting on his stool....Joe was fighting blind and willing to continue....arguably the greatest HW of this era quit a fight he was way ahead in and quit with 2 rounds to go because one of his shoulders was injured...smh

The last big HW fight saw Haye fall down and bull**** his way to the finish line....compare that fight and hype to the first Frazier-Ali fight......Joe was Smoking and Ali wasn't joking....they rumbled...unlike the HW fight we witnessed in Hamburg...smh

Joe won the gold medal with one hand....again fighting with and through a serious injury....if you wanna try and pick apart his resume...good luck with that....again, I have to question your love for the sport, age, and definition of ATG if you think Joe shouldn't be considered an ATG

[Szef]

Smoking Joe is an certified ATG in every sense of the meaning....if you really loved the sport you'd love a fighter like Smoking Joe!!

Big George trucked him in 2 rounds....Dos Rounds!!....Joe fought him AGAIN...something today's HW champs wouldn't dare do....Wlad never attempted to avenge his losses until Brewster was damn near blind....speaking of being blind....Joe was fighting Ali blind in Manilla.....a little more swaying from Joe to the great Eddie Futch is what stopped history from recording Ali quitting on his stool....Joe was fighting blind and willing to continue....arguably the greatest HW of this era quit a fight he was way ahead in and quit with 2 rounds to go because one of his shoulders was injured...smh

The last big HW fight saw Haye fall down and bull**** his way to the finish line....compare that fight and hype to the first Frazier-Ali fight......Joe was Smoking and Ali wasn't joking....they rumbled...unlike the HW fight we witnessed in Hamburg...smh

Joe won the gold medal with one hand....again fighting with and through a serious injury....if you wanna try and pick apart his resume...good luck with that....again, I have to question your love for the sport, age, and definition of ATG if you think Joe shouldn't be considered an ATG

And I have to question your credibility since you dickride fighters hard only because they're from the same city as you are.

As I stated earlier I have a great respect for Joe, he was tough as nails and was a true warrior but he's not an ATG in my book.

No matter how old timers will try to praise his resume the fact is Muhammad Ali is his only great win.

He was destroyed by Foreman but fought him again anyway....as I said his toughness and heart is unquestionable but it still doesn't change the fact that he got steamrolled again.

I love this sport but I like to have a clear view on fighters. I don't praise them because they're from the same city or country ir because when they fought in good ol' days when boxing and boxers were better.

[IronDanHamza]

He arguably won all three so there.

And yes he's Absolutely an ATG.

What's your argument for the second one?

[Ray-boom]

Of course he is an all time great and this should probably be in the boxing history section..

[Ray Corso]

To the OP...........back in Fraziers era you had alot of gyms throughout the United States so the competition level was higher and the demands were too.
Their are champions today in the amatuer ranks & pro ranks that couldn't spar with Frazier without getting hurt!
As to
not being impressed about MSG, ask any in fighter in the world today about fighting there? Especially then when there were huge entertainment events in that hall all the time.
If you don't think Frazier is up to par thats ok by me but to knock a venue that is obviously a great place to fight is ignorant on your part. I first worked in the Garden in 1970 prior to renovation and it was a thrill, prior to that I worked all over the world and the Garden is a special place for everyone in boxing.
As for the past greats being better than todays fighters......theres no doubt about that, its on film!!! Then again if you don't know anything about boxing techniques and you rely only on reading a record to make assumtions then you can't evaluate talent.
Frazier beats Ali, Foreman beats Frazier, Ali beats Foreman.............its all in styles and in the big boy division **** happens! Try studying correct techniques and how a fighter formulates his methods then your opinion could have more validity! Ray.

[Mr. Philadel]

And I have to question your credibility since you dickride fighters hard only because they're from the same city as you are.

As I stated earlier I have a great respect for Joe, he was tough as nails and was a true warrior but he's not an ATG in my book.

No matter how old timers will try to praise his resume the fact is Muhammad Ali is his only great win.

He was destroyed by Foreman but fought him again anyway....as I said his toughness and heart is unquestionable but it still doesn't change the fact that he got steamrolled again.

I love this sport but I like to have a clear view on fighters. I don't praise them because they're from the same city or country ir because when they fought in good ol' days when boxing and boxers were better.

How can you d1ck ride your home team?!?....that don't even sound right

I got a Philly fighter BIAS...not the same as pole hopping though!!

[LacedUp]

What's your argument for the second one?

I'm not saying he did, just that it was a very close fight and some people thought he won.

In my book Ali won it though. I still think a prime smokin joe gives a prime '66 Ali his toughest fight.

[Szef]

To the OP...........back in Fraziers era you had alot of gyms throughout the United States so the competition level was higher and the demands were too.
Their are champions today in the amatuer ranks & pro ranks that couldn't spar with Frazier without getting hurt!
As to
not being impressed about MSG, ask any in fighter in the world today about fighting there? Especially then when there were huge entertainment events in that hall all the time.
If you don't think Frazier is up to par thats ok by me but to knock a venue that is obviously a great place to fight is ignorant on your part. I first worked in the Garden in 1970 prior to renovation and it was a thrill, prior to that I worked all over the world and the Garden is a special place for everyone in boxing.
As for the past greats being better than todays fighters......theres no doubt about that, its on film!!! Then again if you don't know anything about boxing techniques and you rely only on reading a record to make assumtions then you can't evaluate talent.
Frazier beats Ali, Foreman beats Frazier, Ali beats Foreman.............its all in styles and in the big boy division **** happens! Try studying correct techniques and how a fighter formulates his methods then your opinion could have more validity! Ray.

One of your arguments for Joe Frazier being an ATG was that he fought in MSG.. He could've fought Ali in your basemant for all I care he still lost that trilogy.

That's the problem with most all timers, they get emotional when they talk about all fighters because back then a lot more drama was involved in boxing.

There's nothing wrong about that as long as you keep your facts straight.

How can you d1ck ride your home team?!?....that don't even sound right

I got a Philly fighter BIAS...not the same as pole hopping though!!

Philly fighter BIAS clouds your judgement, besides everyone on this forum know you and how you act when it comes to fighters from Philadelphia.

You're probably one of those dudes who keep repeating "I'm from Philly!" when talking to someone like it suppoused impress someone.

[jasjas]

he is clearly an ATG. he has knocked out hall of fame fighters . almost made Ali quit in thrilla in manilla.