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It's been four years since Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr.’s initial negotiations started the current anti-doping debate/firestorm in boxing. That fight fell apart when Mayweather demanded Pacquiao join him in what was then called “Olympic-style testing” to be conducted by the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA). Pacquiao balked at the demand; the two sides fought over a cutoff date for testing and now, several negotiations later, the fight is more myth than the legendary trilogy it should have been.
Four years later, we know more through a ton of articles published by this writer and others. Most importantly, we’ve learned through experience. We’ve seen anti-doping agency VADA (the Voluntary Anti-Doping Association) implement Carbon Isotope Ratio testing, (which determines the number one drug of choice for the modern athlete, synthetic testosterone) as part of its screen test process. That move among others by VADA has raised the testing bar in the sport. Canada’s two top promoters, GYM and Interbox have implemented protocols similar to VADA in a testing program they’ve agreed to partake in. We’ve also learned that true “Olympic-style testing” is year-round and not the training cam footage-only variety implemented by Mayweather in his five fights since restarting that conversation in boxing.
Pacquiao’s trainer, Hall-of-Famer Freddie Roach is now a staunch supporter not only of anti-doping testing but VADA, to be specific. Three of his fighters including Pacquiao, former UFC welterweight champion Georges St. Pierre and Ruslan Provodnikov have undergone the stringent testing offered by the voluntary program.
Roach joined *********************.com this week to discuss the subject of anti-doping with my co-host David Duenez and me. Boxing has been abuzz since Maxboxing.com/Secondsout.com on-camera reporter Radio Rahim conducted this interview:
Freddie Roach talks to Radio Rahim But before we got to Roach’s feelings on anti-doping in boxing, we addressed the impending future of his star fighters. First up was Manny Pacquiao.
“Well, obviously, Pacquiao-Mayweather is the biggest fight out there for him and it’s one we want but right now, it looks like [WBO welterweight champ Tim] Bradley might be in the picture,” said Roach. The two men met in June of 2012 and Bradley pulled off a split decision disputed by fans and media alike. “Sometimes you have to avenge your losses. Even though I felt we won that fight, it’s still a loss in the records. I still think Manny needs to prove he is the better fighter. They are talking [about] that next. It’s a tough fight. [Bradley] is still one of the toughest fights out there but if Manny fights how he did in his last fight, I think he will do very well.”
The big standout of Roach’s stable last year was WBO junior welterweight titleholder Provodnikov, who took Bradley to the limit in a close loss and stopped former titleholder Mike Alvarado seven months later. Provodnikov is rumored to be in the running to fight Pacquiao, a problem for their shared trainer.
“There is a rumor about [Ruslan] fighting Manny. I hope that doesn’t happen because I don’t want to lose one of my fighters. But business is business and sometimes you have to do things like that to make a living and so forth. [Provodnikov] wants the biggest fight out there. There are a lot of good 140 and 147 [pound] fighters out there for him,” said Roach.
Roach, who had been written off by fans and media after a rough 2012 as if his training skills had somehow been space-jammed, seemingly brought Puerto Rican three-division champ Miguel Cotto back to life in 2013. Cotto is tentatively set to fight for the middleweight title next year against incumbent linear champ Sergio “Maravilla” Martinez.
“With Cotto, I hear we are negotiating with Sergio Martinez. I hear that is going very well. That’s his next fight. After that, we have maybe a rematch with Mayweather or [Saul] Canelo” [Alvarez], which would put him in a great fight,” said Roach. “If he does beat Martinez, that will put him as the first Puerto Rican fighter to ever win a fourth title in as many weight divisions, so that would be great for him.”
Speaking of Pacquiao’s last fight against rugged Brandon Rios, it was a whitewash as Pacquiao barely took any damage in outboxing Rios over 12 lopsided rounds. Duenez asked Roach if he was surprised Rios withstood so much power-punching. Was it a good chin or did Manny stick to boxing and not go for a finish?
“Maybe a little bit of both,” wondered Roach. “I thought towards the end, [Pacquiao] pulled up a bit and maybe could have finished him. Rios does have a good chin; he took a lot of shots. Thing is, what I like about what Manny did is he didn’t put himself in a bad position like he did in the fight before [against Juan Manuel Marquez in which he was knocked out while leaping in, out of position]. And he didn’t just go for the knockout from too far away like he did with Marquez. He fought a smart fight. I was really happy about that. He fought a very intelligent fight and I thought he won every round.”
I asked Roach if he hammered into Pacquiao that he needed to stay disciplined and just box while not looking for that reckless knockout win.
“Thing is, in the fight where [Pacquiao] got knocked out, he was doing well and it was close to the end and he got a little anxious,” said Roach, referring to Pacquiao’s sixth round, stone-cold knockout loss to archrival Marquez. “And that’s what we worked on, not getting too anxious, taking our time and working our combinations. Once Pacquiao gets his combinations going, he is almost unstoppable.”
Future and past business aside, the subject turned to one of Roach’s other fighters, Georges St. Pierre, who said recently that due to a lack of support from Dana White and the UFC regarding his desire to undergo VADA testing, he will be retiring from the sport for the time being.
“I talked to [GSP] yesterday and he does want to take a break in retirement. Maybe he will come back. I told him to take at least a year off and see how you feel. And if after a year, you are motivated, we’ll do it. He told me he won’t fight another fight unless I am in his corner though,” said Roach.
When asked how he felt about GSP’s feeling that he should have been supported, not denigrated, by White, Roach said, “[GSP] has a valid point. Georges is a great guy. I think he has a valid point on drug testing. I’m for it because I think it makes a fair fight. Otherwise, it’s like, do you join them and just do steroids also or enhancing drugs with them or do you just try to fight it because they are taking it? With the testing, it makes for an equal playing field. The unfortunate thing is that I think a lot of people aren’t doing anything about it, a lot of the commissions and so forth.”
“Is it just the commissions or is it the writers too?” asked Duenez.
“And the fighters and the rest,” answered Roach. “The thing is, before they do something about it, there is going to have to be a tragedy. Because if someone in a big, big fight dies, that’s what it’s going to take to get these guys off their ass. That’s a shame that we have to do that. We shouldn’t have to do that. We’re in a rough sport anyway, then with [PEDs], it’s almost attempted murder.”
Roach then made an excellent point. The punishment for a PED user in combat sports, the world’s most dangerous games, does not fit the crime at all in the United States.
“Then these fines they give these guys. These guys get caught and then they give them a fine of a couple thousand dollars and a two-month, three-month suspension. They’re going to take two or three months off anyways because champions only fight twice a year nowadays. If they really want to do “Olympic-style” drug testing, the first time you get caught, you are out for two years. The second time, you are out for the rest of your life. They have to make something that will mean something that will maybe make the fighters think twice about doing [PEDs],” said Roach, making total sense.
Four years later, we know more through a ton of articles published by this writer and others. Most importantly, we’ve learned through experience. We’ve seen anti-doping agency VADA (the Voluntary Anti-Doping Association) implement Carbon Isotope Ratio testing, (which determines the number one drug of choice for the modern athlete, synthetic testosterone) as part of its screen test process. That move among others by VADA has raised the testing bar in the sport. Canada’s two top promoters, GYM and Interbox have implemented protocols similar to VADA in a testing program they’ve agreed to partake in. We’ve also learned that true “Olympic-style testing” is year-round and not the training cam footage-only variety implemented by Mayweather in his five fights since restarting that conversation in boxing.
Pacquiao’s trainer, Hall-of-Famer Freddie Roach is now a staunch supporter not only of anti-doping testing but VADA, to be specific. Three of his fighters including Pacquiao, former UFC welterweight champion Georges St. Pierre and Ruslan Provodnikov have undergone the stringent testing offered by the voluntary program.
Roach joined *********************.com this week to discuss the subject of anti-doping with my co-host David Duenez and me. Boxing has been abuzz since Maxboxing.com/Secondsout.com on-camera reporter Radio Rahim conducted this interview:
Freddie Roach talks to Radio Rahim But before we got to Roach’s feelings on anti-doping in boxing, we addressed the impending future of his star fighters. First up was Manny Pacquiao.
“Well, obviously, Pacquiao-Mayweather is the biggest fight out there for him and it’s one we want but right now, it looks like [WBO welterweight champ Tim] Bradley might be in the picture,” said Roach. The two men met in June of 2012 and Bradley pulled off a split decision disputed by fans and media alike. “Sometimes you have to avenge your losses. Even though I felt we won that fight, it’s still a loss in the records. I still think Manny needs to prove he is the better fighter. They are talking [about] that next. It’s a tough fight. [Bradley] is still one of the toughest fights out there but if Manny fights how he did in his last fight, I think he will do very well.”
The big standout of Roach’s stable last year was WBO junior welterweight titleholder Provodnikov, who took Bradley to the limit in a close loss and stopped former titleholder Mike Alvarado seven months later. Provodnikov is rumored to be in the running to fight Pacquiao, a problem for their shared trainer.
“There is a rumor about [Ruslan] fighting Manny. I hope that doesn’t happen because I don’t want to lose one of my fighters. But business is business and sometimes you have to do things like that to make a living and so forth. [Provodnikov] wants the biggest fight out there. There are a lot of good 140 and 147 [pound] fighters out there for him,” said Roach.
Roach, who had been written off by fans and media after a rough 2012 as if his training skills had somehow been space-jammed, seemingly brought Puerto Rican three-division champ Miguel Cotto back to life in 2013. Cotto is tentatively set to fight for the middleweight title next year against incumbent linear champ Sergio “Maravilla” Martinez.
“With Cotto, I hear we are negotiating with Sergio Martinez. I hear that is going very well. That’s his next fight. After that, we have maybe a rematch with Mayweather or [Saul] Canelo” [Alvarez], which would put him in a great fight,” said Roach. “If he does beat Martinez, that will put him as the first Puerto Rican fighter to ever win a fourth title in as many weight divisions, so that would be great for him.”
Speaking of Pacquiao’s last fight against rugged Brandon Rios, it was a whitewash as Pacquiao barely took any damage in outboxing Rios over 12 lopsided rounds. Duenez asked Roach if he was surprised Rios withstood so much power-punching. Was it a good chin or did Manny stick to boxing and not go for a finish?
“Maybe a little bit of both,” wondered Roach. “I thought towards the end, [Pacquiao] pulled up a bit and maybe could have finished him. Rios does have a good chin; he took a lot of shots. Thing is, what I like about what Manny did is he didn’t put himself in a bad position like he did in the fight before [against Juan Manuel Marquez in which he was knocked out while leaping in, out of position]. And he didn’t just go for the knockout from too far away like he did with Marquez. He fought a smart fight. I was really happy about that. He fought a very intelligent fight and I thought he won every round.”
I asked Roach if he hammered into Pacquiao that he needed to stay disciplined and just box while not looking for that reckless knockout win.
“Thing is, in the fight where [Pacquiao] got knocked out, he was doing well and it was close to the end and he got a little anxious,” said Roach, referring to Pacquiao’s sixth round, stone-cold knockout loss to archrival Marquez. “And that’s what we worked on, not getting too anxious, taking our time and working our combinations. Once Pacquiao gets his combinations going, he is almost unstoppable.”
Future and past business aside, the subject turned to one of Roach’s other fighters, Georges St. Pierre, who said recently that due to a lack of support from Dana White and the UFC regarding his desire to undergo VADA testing, he will be retiring from the sport for the time being.
“I talked to [GSP] yesterday and he does want to take a break in retirement. Maybe he will come back. I told him to take at least a year off and see how you feel. And if after a year, you are motivated, we’ll do it. He told me he won’t fight another fight unless I am in his corner though,” said Roach.
When asked how he felt about GSP’s feeling that he should have been supported, not denigrated, by White, Roach said, “[GSP] has a valid point. Georges is a great guy. I think he has a valid point on drug testing. I’m for it because I think it makes a fair fight. Otherwise, it’s like, do you join them and just do steroids also or enhancing drugs with them or do you just try to fight it because they are taking it? With the testing, it makes for an equal playing field. The unfortunate thing is that I think a lot of people aren’t doing anything about it, a lot of the commissions and so forth.”
“Is it just the commissions or is it the writers too?” asked Duenez.
“And the fighters and the rest,” answered Roach. “The thing is, before they do something about it, there is going to have to be a tragedy. Because if someone in a big, big fight dies, that’s what it’s going to take to get these guys off their ass. That’s a shame that we have to do that. We shouldn’t have to do that. We’re in a rough sport anyway, then with [PEDs], it’s almost attempted murder.”
Roach then made an excellent point. The punishment for a PED user in combat sports, the world’s most dangerous games, does not fit the crime at all in the United States.
“Then these fines they give these guys. These guys get caught and then they give them a fine of a couple thousand dollars and a two-month, three-month suspension. They’re going to take two or three months off anyways because champions only fight twice a year nowadays. If they really want to do “Olympic-style” drug testing, the first time you get caught, you are out for two years. The second time, you are out for the rest of your life. They have to make something that will mean something that will maybe make the fighters think twice about doing [PEDs],” said Roach, making total sense.
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