Comments Thread For: Klitschko, Leapai Agree To Terms, Avoid Purse Bid

[Grimmer]

It doesn't matter what Dan Rafael says. No one ranked Chagaev above Vitali, no one. How could Chagaev fight for a vacant lineage when there was two fighters ranked above him? Only 1. and 2. can fight off to create a linear champion, otherwise the claim to lineage can be disputed by a fighter who ranked higher than a fighter ranked below him to win it. If 3rd can fight for a vacant lineage then 20th might as well be able to as it throws the concept of the two best fighting to become the champion right out of the window.

[cupocity303]

It doesn't matter what Dan Rafael says. No one ranked Chagaev above Vitali, no one. How could Chagaev fight for a vacant lineage when there was two fighters ranked above him? Only 1. and 2. can fight off to create a linear champion, otherwise the claim to lineage can be disputed by a fighter who ranked higher than a fighter ranked below him to win it. If 3rd can fight for a vacant lineage then 20th might as well be able to as it throws the concept of the two best fighting to become the champion right out of the window.

You are using a nice little loophole fallacy here. Both Vitali and Wlad mutually agree not to face each other. Therefore, by default, the brother with more belts is the real champion of the two since they mutually agree not to face each other. Wlad is not ducking Vitali or vice versa.

Therefore, Wlad unifying belts with Ibragimov and Chagaev and then Haye - meets the standards of "Lineal". Otherwise, Lineal is a meaningless term. When the King dies in a Monarchy, you don't wait for the Kings' sons son of a son to finally have a lineage to the vacated throne or whatever Tard logic you want to apply. The vacancy gets filled by the next best guy. And it damn sure didn't take fighting Povetkin (a guy who wouldn't have even won the WBA 'Regular' Title or amassed the undefeated record that he had, if he didn't duck the Wlad fight for years. Imagine that, a contender ducking the Champion and therefore denying him the right to become "Lineal". Hilarious!) for Wlad to become the Lineal/Real Champion of the Heavyweight Division.

[WesleySnipes]

Is this guy ranked? and if yes at which place?

[cupocity303]

By the way, retaliation Red K's are feminine.

You take your Red K for a bad post and you move on. That's what the function is there for. You don't get mad and retaliate, you accept that you were wrong and improve your post and thought process the next go around.

[Grimmer]

You are using a nice little loophole fallacy here. Both Vitali and Wlad mutually agree not to face each other. Therefore, by default, the brother with more belts is the real champion of the two since they mutually agree not to face each other. Wlad is not ducking Vitali or vice versa.

Therefore, Wlad unifying belts with Ibragimov and Chagaev and then Haye - meets the standards of "Lineal". Otherwise, Lineal is a meaningless term. When the King dies in a Monarchy, you don't wait for the Kings' sons son of a son to finally have a lineage to the vacated throne or whatever Tard logic you want to apply. The vacancy gets filled by the next best guy. And it damn sure didn't take fighting Povetkin (a guy who wouldn't have even won the WBA 'Regular' Title or amassed the undefeated record that he had, if he didn't duck the Wlad fight for years. Imagine that, a contender ducking the Champion and therefore denying him the right to become "Lineal". Hilarious!) for Wlad to become the Lineal/Real Champion of the Heavyweight Division.

Errrr, no. You don't change a 100 year old system for two brothers who don't want to fight. If they are 1. and 2. they must fight to establish a champion, that's how a lineage works. Not through 1 and 2 colluding to avoid having decide who is the best between them. And you keep mentioning these titles. Lineage was around waaaay before all these belts were, they have no relevance to lineage. Tyson unified all 3 heavyweight belts, but wasn't considered lineal until he beat the belt-less Michael Spinks. I agree belts can hold pedigree to who is considered the best two, but they are not a requirement at all, and the reason they are not a requirement is because they are not reliable enough to be taken seriously, if you want to put so much credence on the belts and rankings of these sanctioning bodies you'll be thrilled that the WBO has just declared Leapai the 2nd best heavyweight in the world. I personally, think that's a trash notion

Vitali was the 2nd ranked heavyweight, not Chagaev,. Leave the manipulation of rankings to suit agendas (ala the Klitschko brothers not fighting each other to create a lineal champ) to the corrupt sanctioning bodies. The lineal system remains preserved, by the rule that only the best two guys can create a champion, otherwise, it's meaningless.

By the way, retaliation Red K's are feminine.

You take your Red K for a bad post and you move on. That's that function is there for. You don't get mad and retaliate, you except that you were wrong and improve your post and thought process the next go around.

It's also not there if you disagree with post. It's there to punish people who post in the incorrect manner e.g calling people "******s". Disagreeing with a post is a asinine reason to "red k" someone.

If you want to red k anybody there's about 5,000 posts a day about a super fight many want to see but a small band of wwe like minded fans idolise over poisoning most threads which hold any small relevance to the subject. Red K them for ruining healthy boxing discussion with childish insults and retorts over who would win, who's ducking who, etc.

[cupocity303]

Errrr, no. You don't change a 100 year old system for two brothers who don't want to fight.

The system is already changed with sanctioning body belts coming into existence. The WBC, WBA, IBF and WBO to a slightly lesser extent are all equals. The belts don't make the champion, the champion makes the belts. Wlad's domination and unification of three of the said 4 belts trumps him not fighting Vitali (who also does not wanna fight Wlad).

If they are 1. and 2. they must fight to establish a champion, that's how a lineage works.

Not if the #2 guy has no intention on fighting # 1 guy and vice versa. Vitali by default has decided that he is ok with his brother being the real champion and holding more belts. If he wasn't, he would've called his little bro out and if Wlad hadn't accepted, then your theory may hold up.

Lineage was around waaaay before all these belts were, they have no relevance to lineage. Tyson unified all 3 heavyweight belts, but wasn't considered lineal until he beat the belt-less Michael Spinks.

The difference is, Michael Spinks at least defeated Larry Holmes, and was still around to be beaten. Therefore Tyson defeating him served as a good symbolical victory.

This doesn't help your argument because Michael Spinks' lineage >> Alexander Povetkin. Povetkin didn't beat the equivalent of a Larry Holmes in order to serve as a 'Lineage' worthy victory for Wlad.

I agree belts can hold pedigree to who is considered the best two, but they are not a requirement at all, and he reason they are not a requirement is because they are not reliable and no where near realistic enough to be taken seriously,

Yes, they are reliable, in the Heavyweight Division at least. Heavyweight fighters put more emphasis on to belts since they're not competing for P4P status like smaller fighters, or winning multi- weight divisional trinkets like Mayweather and Pacquiao.

If anybody can win at least three Titles in the Heavyweight division, then they had to have beaten plenty of top opponents in order to do so. That's credible enough.

if you want to put so much credence on the belts and rankings of these sanctioning bodied you'll be thrill that the WBO has just declared Leapai the 2nd best heavyweight in the world.

Yes, because of his upset victory over another fighter. I look forward to Wlad having a busy 2014 schedule, starting with Lepei.

Vitali was the 2nd ranked heavyweight, not Chagaev,. Leave the manipulation of rankings to suit agendas (ala the Klitschko brothers not fighting) to the corrupt sanctioning bodies. The lineal system remains preserved, by the rule that only the best two guys can create a champion, otherwise, it's meaningless.

Again, Vitali eliminated himself from the equation by not getting in the way of his brother surpassing him. Therefore your argument is Non sequitur.

If you want to re do anybody there's about 5,000 posts a day about a super fight many want to see but a small band of wwe like minded fans idolise over poisoning most threads which hold any small relevance to the subject. Red I them for running healthy boxing discussion with childish insults and retorts over who would win, who's ducking who, etc.

Don't worry, they're getting their fair share of Red K's by me also.