Excluding Floyd/Ward, who else beats Rigo pfp and why please.

[Bushbaby]

Ok cool. I agree with this also as an old way of determining P4P. But a lot of today's fighters prove they are P4P fighters by jumping up or down in class. It's not just mythical anymore. Now obviously fighters can only go up so much so there is still use for your definition of P4P. But c'mon man if Rigo is so much a P4P superstar make a jump and prove it. I think he could pull it off. I also have Rigo in my P4P list. I just don't think he has proved greatness yet in the pro's. What's he gonna do stay 122 forever? I'm just arguing for the sake of argument cause I think there is much more to be desired from Rigo.
Question: was Chris john in your P4P list?

The old way. PFP got screwed up trying to accommodate Floyd and Pacman. That's where it spiraled out of control. There isn't an "old way". it's just people's current perception has been misguided to accommodate superstars with Diva type attitudes.

[-MEGA-]

The old way. PFP got screwed up trying to accommodate Floyd and Pacman. That's where it spiraled out of control. There isn't an "old way". it's just people's current perception has been misguided to accommodate superstars with Diva type attitudes.

Yes it's an "old way" but still relevant in some cases today. I'll agree that P4P is manipulated to help Floyd.Like moving Guerrero and canelo to #10 just before Floyd fights them. Can't think of a similar scenario with PAC though but there probably was. But c'mon man PAC winning belts in 9 different divisions is something great and definitely P4P worthy. He definitely hasn't looked as good recently so he is at the lower end of P4P for me. But still one of the ATG P4P. Floyd is just Floyd his talent is undeniable. Even if he does play moneyball...
If a fighter jumps up in class and gets big wins this definitely jumps him up the P4P list quicker. In no way am I saying this makes them a top 10 P4P though.

[SplitSecond]

The old way. PFP got screwed up trying to accommodate Floyd and Pacman. That's where it spiraled out of control. There isn't an "old way". it's just people's current perception has been misguided to accommodate superstars with Diva type attitudes.

it's a little too opinionated and flawed imo

fighters like pacquiao and floyd who have moved up countless of classes, put on cumbersome weight and are forced to change their styles and face opponents much bigger still and are outweighed about 16lb's etc

if rigo were to move up some weightclasses he'd be more cumbersome and his feet would likely suffer, he'd have to end up in the pocket more than usual and his chin would be there more, against guys that can hurt him more easily while not having the same power to hurt these guys back

so with this "old" p4p interpretation the more a great fighter moves up and beats these bigger guys the less his viewed skills drop because he has to become a different fighter, carrying more weight and fighting much bigger men that wear you down quicker

pfp pacquiao's power is probabley more devestating as he's beating bigger men at the moment, unlike for example wladimir who usually outweighs his opponent whilst also having the stature advantage

bradley for instance fought at somethin like 152 in the am's, i think when he turned pro he started at 147, then moved down, then moved back up again, so bradley is bigger than pacquiao who even at a young age was at a higher weight than pacquiao is now at 35, pfp, pacquiao probabley hurts bradley easier and he can work as much as bradley despite the age of 34

point is, you can't ignore a man climbing weight and winning, esspecially when he seems to be pushing it and the majority in the class are bigger

[Bushbaby]

Yes it's an "old way" but still relevant in some cases today. I'll agree that P4P is manipulated to help Floyd.Like moving Guerrero and canelo to #10 just before Floyd fights them. Can't think of a similar scenario with PAC though but there probably was. But c'mon man PAC winning belts in 9 different divisions is something great and definitely P4P worthy. He definitely hasn't looked as good recently so he is at the lower end of P4P for me. But still one of the ATG P4P. Floyd is just Floyd his talent is undeniable. Even if he does play moneyball...
If a fighter jumps up in class and gets big wins this definitely jumps him up the P4P list quicker. In no way am I saying this makes them a top 10 P4P though.

ATG and PFP are not the same though. PFP has more to do with right now. ATG is career and resume wise. But to have Pacman anywhere above number 8 pfp right now is ludicrous. He's done nothing in years to merit such a standing. Surely beating Rios does nothing for him pfp wise. Yet it does inexplicably.

Sure if a fighter jumps through weight and achieves decent success that can help a pfp standing. But a jump in weight 4 years ago does noting for a pfp standing today, especially having been just recently stopped and beating a nobody in your weightclass.

[HeroBando]

ATG and PFP are not the same though. PFP has more to do with right now. ATG is career and resume wise. But to have Pacman anywhere above number 8 pfp right now is ludicrous. He's done nothing in years to merit such a standing. Surely beating Rios does nothing for him pfp wise. Yet it does inexplicably.

Sure if a fighter jumps through weight and achieves decent success that can help a pfp standing. But a jump in weight 4 years ago does noting for a pfp standing today, especially having been just recently stopped and beating a nobody in your weightclass.

It's not about Rios, it's that nobody has come close to beating him since Morales, except Marquez of course. Most thought he made easy work of Bradley, including all the guys that make p4p rankings. Routing an undefeated p4per like that is an excellent p4p result

[-MEGA-]

ATG and PFP are not the same though. PFP has more to do with right now. ATG is career and resume wise. But to have Pacman anywhere above number 8 pfp right now is ludicrous. He's done nothing in years to merit such a standing. Surely beating Rios does nothing for him pfp wise. Yet it does inexplicably.

Sure if a fighter jumps through weight and achieves decent success that can help a pfp standing. But a jump in weight 4 years ago does noting for a pfp standing today, especially having been just recently stopped and beating a nobody in your weightclass.

I'm saying ATG P4P if there is such a thing.
I pretty much agree with you though. Rios did absolutely nothing to help pac's P4P status. I havnt made a P4P list in awhile so not sure where I would have him but 8-10 sounds good to me.
For the record I think mauler style boxers would give Rigo hell. Look at angulo Lara.
Been a good discussion but I'm out. green k sent

[Bushbaby]

It's not about Rios, it's that nobody has come close to beating him since Morales, except Marquez of course. Most thought he made easy work of Bradley, including all the guys that make p4p rankings. Routing an undefeated p4per like that is an excellent p4p result

Pacman did not Route Bradley. He won the fight. But he didn't dominate Bradley. So stop that right now. Most also felt he lost the 3rd fight to Marquez before the 4th. Don't fail to mention that. In all those were 3 unfavorable performances before beating Rios. That's not top pfp material no matter how you try and make it seem like it is.

[Bushbaby]

it's a little too opinionated and flawed imo

fighters like pacquiao and floyd who have moved up countless of classes, put on cumbersome weight and are forced to change their styles and face opponents much bigger still and are outweighed about 16lb's etc

if rigo were to move up some weightclasses he'd be more cumbersome and his feet would likely suffer, he'd have to end up in the pocket more than usual and his chin would be there more, against guys that can hurt him more easily while not having the same power to hurt these guys back

so with this "old" p4p interpretation the more a great fighter moves up and beats these bigger guys the less his viewed skills drop because he has to become a different fighter, carrying more weight and fighting much bigger men that wear you down quicker

pfp pacquiao's power is probabley more devestating as he's beating bigger men at the moment, unlike for example wladimir who usually outweighs his opponent whilst also having the stature advantage

bradley for instance fought at somethin like 152 in the am's, i think when he turned pro he started at 147, then moved down, then moved back up again, so bradley is bigger than pacquiao who even at a young age was at a higher weight than pacquiao is now at 35, pfp, pacquiao probabley hurts bradley easier and he can work as much as bradley despite the age of 34

point is, you can't ignore a man climbing weight and winning, esspecially when he seems to be pushing it and the majority in the class are bigger

I'm not ignoring the climb it weight. Please understand that. My point is if you climbed weight 5 years ago, that has no bearing on the present. If you've done nothing noteworthy in years, how would you still be top pfp right now following a devastating ko??

[IronDanHamza]

"P4P" is how you're performing right now.

That's pretty much all it is.

Who's the best "Right now" based off both skills and how impressive they've been looking at the moment.

I.e Bradley just beat Marquez therefore he's quite high on the list.

Froch just struggled with Groves therefore he's off most peoples list as opposed to before he was on most peoples as he was coming off 2 impressive victories in Bute and Kessler.

[IronDanHamza]

The old way. PFP got screwed up trying to accommodate Floyd and Pacman. That's where it spiraled out of control. There isn't an "old way". it's just people's current perception has been misguided to accommodate superstars with Diva type attitudes.

P4P's been that way for a while. Well before Pacquaio or Mayweather.