where would you rate Pacquiao on ATG list if

[Luilun]

A notch above Floyd more weight titles. Floyd also chickened out from Pac

[soul_survivor]

he beats Rios
rematches and beats Bradley or Marquez convincingly
then fights Mayweather as his final fight and beats him before hanging up the gloves

I already have Pac number 38 on my ATG P4P list, just below Arguello and Dempsey.

BUT if he goes onto avenge losses to Vradley, JMM (possibly KO) and beats Mayweather (doubtful now as Pac has slowed considerably), then he would move up the list, probably go above both Dempsey and Arguello, especially if Bradley goes on to do incredible things.

My list is here:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=608842

[Sugar Adam Ali]

if he stops rios quick

beat bradley in rematch to get his belts,,,

beat jmm convincingly or maybe stops him

then beats floyd,,,


Manny is a lock for top 10 ATG

He would have beaten everyone of any importance from 112 pounds to 150 lbs

barrera twice
jmm 3 times
morales twice
floyd
bradley
hatton
cotto
margs
shane
clottey
larios
solis
diaz

he would be a lock for top 10,, especially if he beats another top ATG like floyd,,,

Manny would be right up there with henry armstrong, SRL, ali, SRR, louis, etc


TOP 10 LOCK

[boliodogs]

Do you really think anyone reading this post has a nice neat all time great list from #1 to #30 in order from best down to the 30th best. I don't think anyone does. I am guessing I would have Pacquiao somewhere between 10 and 25 on my all time great list if I had such a list.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I already have Pac number 38 on my ATG P4P list, just below Arguello and Dempsey.

BUT if he goes onto avenge losses to Vradley, JMM (possibly KO) and beats Mayweather (doubtful now as Pac has slowed considerably), then he would move up the list, probably go above both Dempsey and Arguello, especially if Bradley goes on to do incredible things.

My list is here:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=608842

no offense because i really like you as a poster, but how the hell is demspey and arguello ahead of manny now...

Manny has accomplished more at 135 and under to, let alone at the higher weights, then both of those guys ever did,,

dempsey dodged all black competitior like harry wills and sam langford,, and got whipped everytime he really stepped up like vs tunney

arguello was a beautiful boxer to watch but his career accomplishments arent greater than manny's

manny's epic fights with mab, morales, jmm are better than anything those guys did,, and then add on the hatton, cotto, margs, clottey, etc

demspey gets blown out of the water,,, arguello is close, but he didnt do nearly enough to surpass manny's career accomplishments

[aaron.king]

no offense because i really like you as a poster, but how the hell is demspey and arguello ahead of manny now...

Manny has accomplished more at 135 and under to, let alone at the higher weights, then both of those guys ever did,,

dempsey dodged all black competitior like harry wills and sam langford,, and got whipped everytime he really stepped up like vs tunney

arguello was a beautiful boxer to watch but his career accomplishments arent greater than manny's

manny's epic fights with mab, morales, jmm are better than anything those guys did,, and then add on the hatton, cotto, margs, clottey, etc

demspey gets blown out of the water,,, arguello is close, but he didnt do nearly enough to surpass manny's career accomplishments

I agree with you about Pacquiao's place vis-a-vis Dempsey and Arguello, but to be fair, Dempsey didn't exactly "dodge" his black contemporaries. He would have fought Wills, and later in life, expressed dismay that he didn't. Dempsey even signed the contract to fight Wills. Tex Rickard (and Jack Kearns to a lesser degree) is to blame -- Rickard, for instance, refused to pay Dempsey in accordance with the Wills contract and essentially forced Dempsey out of the fight. Rickard wanted nothing to do with the so-called color line. Instead, he put him in the ring with Gene Tunney, and we all know how that turned out.

[aaron.king]

Pac doesn't need to rematch Bradley as he beat him already and has beat JMM twice already. Beating him convincingly is a bit vague a comment......Pac beat his style nightmare twice that all that matters.

If Pac can beat Rios more convincingly than anyone has beat Rios and then beats Floyd, is all Pac need to concentrate on now.

Agreed. I'm not sure what a decisive victory over Bradley does for his legacy in the long term. That said, if Bradley keeps racking up victories, a stoppage or brutal beatdown of Bradley in a rematch would be another notch in his belt.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I agree with you about Pacquiao's place vis-a-vis Dempsey and Arguello, but to be fair, Dempsey didn't exactly "dodge" his black contemporaries. He would have fought Wills, and later in life, expressed dismay that he didn't. Dempsey even signed the contract to fight Wills. Tex Rickard (and Jack Kearns to a lesser degree) is to blame -- Rickard, for instance, refused to pay Dempsey in accordance with the Wills contract and essentially forced Dempsey out of the fight. Rickard wanted nothing to do with the so-called color line. Instead, he put him in the ring with Gene Tunney, and we all know how that turned out.

that may be correct,, a promoter protecting his guy,, i can see that,,

But anyway you cut it, manny has done more than dempsey and arguello

[aaron.king]

that may be correct,, a promoter protecting his guy,, i can see that,,

But anyway you cut it, manny has done more than dempsey and arguello

I agree. Regardless of the preceding side note, Dempsey is definitely not ahead of Pacquiao in terms of in the ring achievement and skill level.

[Holywarrior]

that may be correct,, a promoter protecting his guy,, i can see that,,

But anyway you cut it, manny has done more than dempsey and arguello

Dempsey yes, Arguello, No.

Big no. Pac never even beat a fighter as great as Olivares, let alone fight one.