Heavyweight Evolution: 90's/Current eras vs the old days. No comparison.

[MuhammadLewis]

Now you're changing the argument. Did I mention Rocky Marciano at any point? Most the fighters you have mentioned as "1920s fighters" are guys from the 1960s and 70s. I'm talking about them.

Max Baer was 6'4" 230+. He could beat Tua. I don't have near as much knowledge about heavyweights from the 20s-50s as others do, so I'm not going to pretend I do. I'm sure more than a few of them were capable of beating David Tua or Ray Mercer or Razor Ruddock or Frank Bruno.

1- I'm not arguing. I'm not changing the argument.. I'm saying that you can bunch up every Heavyweight from the 20's-70's and pit them against Post Holmes .. and you can clearly see Heavyweights have evolved.. they might have regressed since the 90's but if you pick the VERY PEAK of Heavyweight evolution : Lewis,Vitali,Wlad,Tyson,.. you will see that they are clearly better than Johnson,Dempsey,Marciano,Frazier, Louis..... like I said.. the ONLY Heavys that will be able to compete against Lewis/Vitali/Tyson will be Ali/Foreman.............

Think about it this way... over the last 20 years we have seen four super heavys of considerable skills.

If you take every heavyweight over the last 100 years... and create a top 20 h2h list.. these four super heavys (lewis-bowe-vitali-wlad) would all make the list............... in fact Lewis/Vitali/Wlad will probably make the top 10 H2H and Lewis/Vitali could crack the top 5.........

It's clear that evolution has occurred.


2- No dude.. Max Baer would have been utterly dominated by Tua and schooled by Ruddock lol. Have you even watch Ruddock fight and Baer fight? Watch the Ruddock fights against Tyson and his destruction leading up to Tyson.... he would have taken Max's soul.

[bojangles1987]

1- I'm not arguing. I'm not changing the argument.. I'm saying that you can bunch up every Heavyweight from the 20's-70's and pit them against Post Holmes .. and you can clearly see Heavyweights have evolved.. they might have regressed since the 90's but if you pick the VERY PEAK of Heavyweight evolution : Lewis,Vitali,Wlad,Tyson,.. you will see that they are clearly better than Johnson,Dempsey,Marciano,Frazier, Louis..... like I said.. the ONLY Heavys that will be able to compete against Lewis/Vitali/Tyson will be Ali/Foreman.............

Think about it this way... over the last 20 years we have seen four super heavys of considerable skills.

If you take every heavyweight over the last 100 years... and create a top 20 h2h list.. these four super heavys (lewis-bowe-vitali-wlad) would all make the list............... in fact Lewis/Vitali/Wlad will probably make the top 10 H2H and Lewis/Vitali could crack the top 5.........

It's clear that evolution has occurred.


2- No dude.. Max Baer would have been utterly dominated by Tua and schooled by Ruddock lol. Have you even watch Ruddock fight and Baer fight? Watch the Ruddock fights against Tyson and his destruction leading up to Tyson.... he would have taken Max's soul.

This right here proves my point. You have no idea what you are talking about if you are lumping all these guys together and saying they are the same size or fought in the same time. Frazier was the exact same size as Mike Tyson. Louis was bigger and better. Cleveland Williams and Max Baer and Primo Carnera and Cleveland Williams and George Chuvalo and all these other guys you are calling small were basically the same size as the guys you're calling "evolved."

[MuhammadLewis]

No, when those guys were out of prime they were 240+. In their primes everyone I mentioned were a rock solid 210-230 at their best. Just like Tua, who you seem to love. Just like Ruddock and Tyson and Bowe and Holyfield and Mercer.

Do you see the way Holyfield,Bowe,Lewis,Tyson,Ruddock, and Mercer MOVE though? They move with modern tactics and surreal athleticism. They look like ebony Gods in the ring. The guys from before look slow and ******ed. I'm sorry I just can't see them beating the 90's guys..


Trust me man.. you are wrong and I'm right.


The bottom line is I can PICK 10 fighters from the MODERN ERA. 90's-Current.


Lewis
Vitali
Tyson
Wlad
Holyfield
Bowe
Tua
Ike
Mercer
Tucker

and match those 10 against 10 fighters from the 1800's-1970's and you will see that I'm right.

I'm using a short time span of two decades and pitting them against over a CENTURY of fighters from the past.. and you will see that the modern era MORE than holds it's own against a FAR superior number of fighters.

Your giant selection pool vs my tiny selection pool and my tiny selection pool will still hold it's own if not outright win.

[MuhammadLewis]

This right here proves my point. You have no idea what you are talking about if you are lumping all these guys together and saying they are the same size or fought in the same time. Frazier was the exact same size as Mike Tyson. Louis was bigger and better. Cleveland Williams and Max Baer and Primo Carnera and Cleveland Williams and George Chuvalo and all these other guys you are calling small were basically the same size as the guys you're calling "evolved."

No dude... Tyson was MUCH bigger than Frazier lol... what the Hell. Tyson was much stronger too.

Are you a boxrec warrior? Did you just look up height and weight and came to the conclusion that they are the 'same size'.. No they weren't.

Williams and Primo were ****ing bums man.. They were like 1st grade Lennox's and Wlad's..... Come on wake up. You are actually listing human punching bag Chuvalo now? Chuvalo's biggest achivement is having the ability to be anally fisted by Prime Foreman without feeling anything.

[bojangles1987]

Do you see the way Holyfield,Bowe,Lewis,Tyson,Ruddock, and Mercer MOVE though? They move with modern tactics and surreal athleticism. They look like ebony Gods in the ring. The guys from before look slow and ******ed. I'm sorry I just can't see them beating the 90's guys..


Trust me man.. you are wrong and I'm right.


The bottom line is I can PICK 10 fighters from the MODERN ERA. 90's-Current.


Lewis
Vitali
Tyson
Wlad
Holyfield
Bowe
Tua
Ike
Mercer
Tucker

and match those 10 against 10 fighters from the 1800's-1970's and you will see that I'm right.

I'm using a short time span of two decades and pitting them against over a CENTURY of fighters from the past.. and you will see that the modern era MORE than holds it's own against a FAR superior number of fighters.

Your giant selection pool vs my tiny selection pool and my tiny selection pool will still hold it's own if not outright win.

I'll take:

Ali
Louis
Foreman
Liston
Frazier
Norton
Shavers
Holmes
any number of 70s heavyweights like Young or Lyle

and they will beat most your fighters. Holmes, Liston, Ali, Louis, and Foreman alone can and in some cases would beat every single heavyweight you named.

[bojangles1987]

No dude... Tyson was MUCH bigger than Frazier lol... what the Hell. Tyson was much stronger too.

Are you a boxrec warrior? Did you just look up height and weight and came to the conclusion that they are the 'same size'.. No they weren't.

Williams and Primo were ****ing bums man.. They were like 1st grade Lennox's and Wlad's..... Come on wake up. You are actually listing human punching bag Chuvalo now? Chuvalo's biggest achivement is having the ability to be anally fisted by Prime Foreman without feeling anything.

How is Tyson much bigger if he and Frazier were basically the same height and weight at their best? How the hell else do you determine size bedsides height and weight?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I think the 60's to present day are much better than the 1900-1950s era.....

i will take
ali
holmes
lewis
holyfield
frazier
tyson
klitchko
bowe
foreman
liston

over

louis
dempey
tunney
marcaino
johnson
willard
walcott


like i said earlier, i think johnson, louis, and tunney could compete in any era, the rest are vastly overrated......

dempsey would get beat down by a mercer or a norton......

[bojangles1987]

I think the 60's to present day are much better than the 1900-1950s era.....

i will take
ali
holmes
lewis
holyfield
frazier
tyson
klitchko
bowe
foreman
liston

over

louis
dempey
tunney
marcaino
johnson
willard
walcott


like i said earlier, i think johnson, louis, and tunney could compete in any era, the rest are vastly overrated......

dempsey would get beat down by a mercer or a norton......

According to the TS, the bolded fighters are evolutionarily inferior to the others. They are part of the black and white 1920s. Anyone before 1980 is a black and white 1920 fighter who weighs 200 pounds at most.

[soul_survivor]

Obviously 70s and 90s were the deepest and best heavy divisions in history....

The game has changed so much since 1920s to present...



People have to remember that demspey could hover over a downed opponent and start punching as soon as knees were off the ground,,, Tyson would have just stood over douglas and bombed away after he knocked him down...

totally different sport as it was in the early 1900s

Totally agree with that last point. That's why I don't normally like pitting guys from the early 20th century to those in the post-1930 era. There are massive differences, just watch fight clips of guys like Fitzsimmons, Dempsey and even guys who were thought of as skilled at the time such as Gentleman Jim or Jack Johnson and they look crude compared to fighters who appeared post 1930. I think the Golden Age of the sport lasted a long time, from about 1930 all the way till the mid-to late 80s. Any of those greats could compete with current greats.

[Poet682006]

How is Tyson much bigger if he and Frazier were basically the same height and weight at their best? How the hell else do you determine size bedsides height and weight?

Hey Bo, you realize you're being trolled by an alt right?