p4p

[Manny_P]

That's really selective thinking.

Reverse their roles.

Of course Rafael is undefeated in those 3 years, he hasn't been fighting anyone and is at the same weight he's been his entire career.

Manny's wins in the last 3 years include stoppages of guys that were firmly ranked in the top of pound for pound lists in five straight years.

I agree.

Marquez have stayed in that division fo a looong ass time. If Pac stayed at 122lbs, Pac woulda owned Larios, Vasquez Macoulough all of them. Pac was a beast at 122lbs. And let's not forget, Manny Pacquiao was UNDEFEATED at 122lbs-126lbs!!!!!!!!!! That's crazy. Manny only lost to Morales by a slim margin in a weight class 130lbs many believe he shouldn't even be in.

Pac should be higher than Rafael Marquez SIMPLE AS THAT!!! The fact than Marquez is above Manny in this P4P list of Boxingscene PROVES THAT THEY ARE PISSED LIKE WOUNDED LIL GURLS becuz they picked Morales to put a shut out on Manny. THat's FACT. Put down the curtains bitches!!!! Manny_P has spoken!!!!

[Bozo_no no]

J.M.M. should by no means be ranked higher than Pacquiao...and that draw is not so much a knock....but more a red flag or questionmark.

I wasn't implying you thought he should be higher than Manny, its just that if that draw is a question mark, how close do you seem him to the top ten pound for pound?

Because if his only noteworthy big fight is a red flag, he shouldn't come close, and a lot of people rate him 10-15 based on that draw.

[Run]

I know I'll cause controversy In stating this:

I watched Pac v.s. Marquez for the sixth time yesterday, and the case could be made that J.M.M. did enough to win the fight.

Some would argue to this day Pac lost.

its just that if that draw is a question mark, how close do you seem him to the top ten pound for pound?

I really dont know. I think I would rank him somewhere around 11 perhaps cracking the 10 spot.

I'd have to really think about constructing a "P4P" list...and usually dont adhere to them. I just think this is an interesting topic.



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!

[Bozo_no no]

I'm not saying that having R Marquez above Pac is crazy, pound for pound lists are very subjective.

I just don't see it myslef, and think it's a very minority opinion.

[Bozo_no no]

I know I'll cause controversy In stating this:

I watched Pac v.s. Marquez for the sixth time yesterday, and the case could be made that J.M.M. did enough to win the fight.

Some would argue to this day Pac lost.

I watched it again last week as well and still had Manny winning.

He won the 1st 10-6, and clearly won the 2nd. If you give him 3 rounds from 3-12, he wins the fight.

If anything, JMM is lucky he escaped that fight with a draw, because a simple error in scoring that 1st round on the one judges' card (he later admitted he made a mistake and would have scored it 10-6 in retrospect) is all that seperated that from being a loss for JMM.

[Bozo_no no]

I really dont know. I think I would rank him somewhere around 11 perhaps cracking the 10 spot.

How does that work though Run?

You agree that his only significant win is a red flag and a question mark but you have him at 11?

I just don't get how your logic is working here.

[Run]

I watched it again last week as well and still had Manny winning.

He won the 1st 10-6, and clearly won the 2nd. If you give him 3 rounds from 3-12, he wins the fight.

If anything, JMM is lucky he escaped that fight with a draw, because a simple error in scoring that 1st round on the one judges' card (he later admitted he made a mistake and would have scored it 10-6 in retrospect) is all that seperated that from being a loss for JMM.

The first couple of rounds were ugly and the three knockdows were definitely impressive in Manny's favor.

10-7 though....and I had J.M.M. winning enough middle rounds. My card ended up 115-114 in favor of Marquez with rounds even.

That fight was really tough to judge.



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!

[Run]

How does that work though Run?

You agree that his only significant win is a red flag and a question mark but you have him at 11?

I just don't get how your logic is working here.

He has other significant wins in my opinion.

I thought him beating Gainer was decent....Manuel Medina, Robbie Peden, and lets keep in mind he is recognized as the featherweight champion universally. Victor Polo was obviously no slouch either.



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!

[Bozo_no no]

The first couple of rounds were ugly and the three knockdows were definitely impressive in Manny's favor.

10-7 though....and I had J.M.M. winning enough middle rounds. My card ended up 115-114 in favor of Marquez with rounds even.

That fight was really tough to judge.

I agree, but that 1st round was 10-6. That judge took heat from everyone around the boxing world for having it 10-7, and he admitted he was wrong and was quite embarassed.

I think too many people were caught up in the awe of JMM coming back from those knock downs.

To be winning that fight, one needs to score 8 out of 10 rounds for him inbetween rounds 3 and 12. I just don't think he swept that many.

HBO had it even wider than I remember:

[IMG]http://i19.***********.com/albums/b163/dantzu/LedermancardPacquiaoMarquez.jpg[/IMG]

[Bozo_no no]

He has other significant wins in my opinion.

I thought him beating Gainer was decent....Manuel Medina, Robbie Peden, and lets keep in mind he is recognized as the featherweight champion universally. Victor Polo was obviously no slouch either.

I wouldn't say those aren't significant, but pound for pound wise?

Gainer was completly washed up. The Medina and Peden wins were decent, but that was 3 and 4 years ago.

Most people that rate him near the top ten are basing it largely on the draw with Manny.

I just don't see how in most people's eyes the draw was a plus for Marquez but a knock for Manny.