My top 20 greatest all time IF YOU DONT AGREE I WILL EXPLAIN

[MARKBNLV]

The list fails to me to many guys with little tape on them and having Srl so low is de****able could Money May beat Benetiz Hearns or Duran i think not.

[Jloro]

people have to make lists with arbitrary criteria in order to place floyd so high. if you made a list based on the most important thing in boxing resume floyd would be nowhere near the top.

skill? completely subjective and dependent on competition. anyone looks great against guys they hand pick.

longevity? ottke, calzaghe, john, cuenca, grigorian. all these guys had longevity. that means they are great fighters? also retiring for long stretches and barely fighting surely has an advantage over past eras where guys who fought 4-5 times a year.

dominance? once against dependent on your competition. not very hard to dominant when you are only fighting the guys that you want to fight. if pac fought 20 margaritos in a row he would be the most dominant fighter of all time!

you can't be one of the greats of all time if you refused to fight the best of your time.

Bhop is the GOAT

[stefl14]

I knew this list would have Floyd in a silly position when I saw the thread title. Having Floyd above Duran and SRL is simply unjustifiable.

[Oasis_Lad]

1.SRR
2. Floyd mayweather jr
3. henry Armstrong
4. ezzard Charles
5. joe Louis
6. sam Langford
7. roy jones jr
8. Muhammad ali
9. sugar ray leonard
10. Bernard Hopkins

Literally the worst list I have ever seen.

[BennyST]

Outside of Floyd at #10. Not a horrible list.

But Chavez Sr. Arguello, Hopkins & Floyd have no business anywhere near a top 20 ATG list.

But a Floyd win over Pacquiao before he proves himself to be completely shot could change all of that. Still wouldn't be in the top 10 though. Even if he beat a peak Manny Pacquiao.

Regarding Hopkins, if cleans out Light Heavyweight & becomes undisputed while either 50 or pushing 50 (as absurd as it seems, it's highly possible). I don't see how you can't have a spot for him the top 20.

Chavez Sr nowhere near a top 20 list?

What has happened to him recently? He has become someone people love to slag off as an overrated hype job recently, especially on this forum.

Based on everything that makes you rate high as an ATG, Chavez does better than most. He is undoubtedly worthy of a spot between 10-20.

He rates highly in every single area.

He beat a lot of champions. More than most today, and this was without the amount of titles available today.

He has numerous HOFers and great fighters on his résumé and ducked no one.

He has won titles in multiple divisions, dominated one division, reigned for many years, was p4p and has records for all sorts of championship fights. Most defenses, most titles fights etc etc.

You need some pretty clear bias to say he doesn't anywhere near a top 20.

[BattlingNelson]

You say you underrate Burley because you haven't seen much of him and then you rank Greb at no. 4 even though no footage exists. Odd.

Other points:

Not having arguably the greatest ever LW in Joe Gans on the list is inexcuseable. Jimmy McLarnin and Archie Moore, are a couple more that absolutely should be there.

I think that having Whitaker and particularly Jones Jr. and Floyd in the all-time top 20 is terrible.

[BennyST]

Btw TS, Duran started at bantamweight, not featherweight. He beat his first HOfer at featherweight in Ernesto Marcel, but fought future champion Carlos Mendoza at bantamweight.

As for Floyd and his lineal titles as a reason for being above Duran and so high, I guess Duran wouldn't have beaten Hernandez (maybe top 20 at 130), Castillo (maybe top 30 at 135), Baldomir (unrated at 147) and Canelo (unrated at 154) and was incredibly lucky instead to have had to fight Marvin Hagler (top 3-5 at 160), Tommy Hearns (top 1-3 at 154), Sugar Ray Leonard (top 2-3 at 147), Buchanan (top 15-20 at 135) and De Jesus for his.

That's not even going into the fact that he has one of the very, very greatest wins in the history of boxing, arguably the greatest. As for your banal, typical excuse of Ray Leonard fought the wrong fight, as usual, that's just some bad Legendary Nights parroting.

The original game plan, by Dundee and Leonard was to fight as he normally did. Revisionist history now has people thinking that Leonard normally fought as he did in the rematch and as he did against Hagler.
Those two fights were the exceptions, and the first Duran fight the rule.

He had never fought like that in his pro career and the way he fought Duran in the rematch was the first, and one of the only times, he ever fought like that with so much movement, very little engagement off the backfoot.

He fought 95% of his career as he did against Duran in the first fight and as it was thought Duran was slightly past it heading into it, they expected his youth, massive size and reach advantage, natural strength and punching power at 147 would prevail. Dundee also wanted Leonard to target Duran's body and back him up because they knew he was ageing and blew up in between fights and thus thought that they would wear him down and overpower him. They expected to be able to hit him with the jab easily, but Leonard had it taken away in the first two rounds with a series of slip and counter right hands over it which hurt him and stopped him throwing it as much.

Because he lost, people suddenly started in with all the typical excuses you hear now.

Anyway, I am probably one of the very few people that agree that Mayweather is one of the best of all times and rates very highly as such, but the excuses you use to have him in the top 10 and above someone like Duran is absurd.

You say you base your list on resume plus skill, dominance, and longevity. Duran beat better fighters and has a greater resume over as much and more weight divisions, dominated one division better and longer, and showed off an equally high level of skill against fighters of greater skill, though in a different style. What he did lack was Floyds consistency and longevity at the top after 30, though that is also due to Floyd not going above 154 and a great lack of talent overall in today's era, along with Duran's lack of discipline and fat ass. If the hardest guys Duran had had to fight at 147-154 was Hatton, Judah, Cotto and Canelo, instead of HOFers Carlos Palomino, Ray Leonard, Benitez, Hearns, Cuevas etc he wouldn't have lost either. If he also only moved from 130-154 (though only a few fights at 154) rather than 118-168 it would have been different, but that's what he did, so it's not. A moot point either way.

Apart from two fights, both against HOFers who he also has wins over, all his losses came after 30 and at 154 and above. Considering he is only a natural lightweight of 5'7" and really never belonged any higher than 140-147 at most, it's not surprising.

Anyway, I admire anyone that does these lists, but resume always comes first and foremost. Who you beat is everything. The other stuff builds on that, but cannot replace it. It's why guys like Ricardo Lopez will never be rated truly high. Dominance, longevity, great skill, everything....except the résumé.

[SBleeder]

Missing Archie Moore and Joe Gans.

[BennyST]

You say you underrate Burley because you haven't seen much of him and then you rank Greb at no. 4 even though no footage exists. Odd.

Other points:

Not having arguably the greatest ever LW in Joe Gans on the list is inexcuseable. Jimmy McLarnin and Archie Moore, are a couple more that absolutely should be there.

I think that having Whitaker and particularly Jones Jr. and Floyd in the all-time top 20 is terrible.

Yeah, I was surprised by the inclusion of fighters like Benny Leonard, Canzoneri, Chocolate etc, not to speak of Jones and Floyd, yet the exclusion of Gans, Moore and McLarnin in particular.

Though somewhat inconsistent, he still holds, unarguably, one of the greatest resumes over many divisions in the history of the sport. Arguably better than anyone else in that respect.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

Mayweather Jr is Top 10-15 All time imo. The skills, the dominance, the overall body of work. 17 years of excellence in the ring. My grandad was shocked watching the Canelo-Floyd fight. 37 years old and looked 21. My grandad had so much respect for his conditioning and dedication to his craft.